Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

    Originally posted by Smoke
    In reference to the title, it is about maintenance of speed. Someone cited Berlin. Well you choose it because it fit your thoughts, but look at Osaka and Beijing, where Asafa was run down late race.
    Since I was the only one who referenced Berlin, it appears that you are talking about me; however, you clearly missed (or choose to) that I distinguished between "championships".

    Originally posted by 7-sided
    Anyway, its kind of crazy to say that Powell doesn't have speed maintenance when you actually look at his NON-CHAMPIONSHIP splits. Championships-time you are talking about something else, but I think his maintenance is fine; I just think he happens to be the 3rd best sprinter in the world right now
    It is you who is trying to "...fit your thoughts...", I used Berlin because we actually have apples to apples detailed analysis for that race. And, if we used Tokyo, it would bear out my points of suboptimal energy distribution leading to a failed race as well (or in other words...Asafa choked, or whatever words some of you love to use to disparage athletes).

    Marlow, there are different schools of thoughts on this, but the idea of speed maintenance is becoming less of a factor (among some theorists) because of the speeds that the top athletes are currently achieving. There's just so little real estate to slow down these days that once a top-tier (Bolt, Powell, Gay) athlete has achieved peak speed, impact of deceleration over the next 25-30m becomes somewhat negligible. Now this would NOT be the case for a 10.1-10.3 sprinter; in that instance speed maintenance IS key. I assumed we were talking about the elites of the elites.

    Bottom line: when you compare non-championship Asafa to championship Bolt/Gay, his numbers are similar. The difference between them is that Asafa subscribes closer to the "smoothed" acceleration speed maintenance model than does either Gay or Bolt. Yes, that's the paradox: the athlete that more closely resembles the "smoke" model at his best (Powell), in terms of the planned consistency of his race, is the athlete who has achieved the least championship results. Gay and Bolt adhere much less to the suboptimal max velocity ideal...and it is very likely that Owens and Hayes did too. :wink:

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

      Originally posted by Smoke
      In reference to the title, it is about maintenance of speed.
      My original point.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

        Originally posted by Marlow
        Originally posted by Smoke
        In reference to the title, it is about maintenance of speed.
        My original point.
        Finding solace in another posters comments only matters if the other poster is correct. They aren't, specific to this thread. "In reference to the [thread] title" speed maintenance was NOT an option, or more specifically, it wasn't the question, as cladthin pointed out. It was top-end speed or the start. To answer these questions, there has to be more clear definitions of not only the terms but the level of athlete that you may be discussing and in some cases gender. Also, the strategy of "speed maintenance" is not universally shared, though I am not saying that it is not the correct strategy to employ.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

          Originally posted by 7-sided
          speed maintenance was NOT an option, or more specifically, it wasn't the question,
          I ALWAYS teach my students not to fall for an apparent dichitomy. Just because only two options are given, does not mean other things are not more important.

          Is it better to violently beat young children or old people for being in the way?

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

            Originally posted by Marlow
            ...Just because only two options are given, does not mean other things are not more important.
            Your above statement is true. We came into disagreement when you agreed with an untrue statement by Avante that Powell does not have a finish. He does. We just have not seen much of it (any of it?) in championship/contested situations.

            separately (partially theoretical): If Powell had run identical to his 2008 Rieti races at the '09 WC in Berlin, he might have still been run down by Gay (though Powell's "Basic" from those races are "superior" to Gay/Berlin). It would NOT have been because he doesn't have a finish, it would have been because he doesn't achieve as high of a max. velocity than does Gay, imo. And, this is by design.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

              Originally posted by 7-sided
              you agreed with an untrue statement by Avante that Powell does not have a finish. He does. We just have not seen much of it (any of it?) in championship/contested situations.
              Ha! You should go into stand-up!

              As I tell my students - I have an EXCELLENT memory; it's just very short! :wink:

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

                Let me repeat, I am not disputing the relevance of refining the start, drive or finishing segments of a race but it seems we may be wandering into semantics.
                The original question (I think) was: In a 100 m race, which is more important, the start, top speed or maintaining?
                Does "fastest" mean traversing the 100 m in less time or in achieving greater fps at some point in the race than your opponents.
                Seems to me it is the former, the cumulative result of start, speed and maintaining. If you can improve any segment, you will achieve greater fps.
                Further affiant sayeth not.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

                  Originally posted by 7-sided
                  We came into disagreement when you agreed with an untrue statement by Avante that Powell does not have a finish. He does. We just have not seen much of it (any of it?) in championship/contested situations.
                  AP's finish in Championships might be a bit worse than in other races of his, but it is still the case that Gay and Bolt run better the last 20m than does AP. Of course, I think that this is related to the fact that they are both vastly better 200m runners than he is.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

                    Assuming the sprinters can maintain whatever top end speeds they have, I would say the guy with top end speed on balance beats the good starter. Having said that, sprinters with good top end are generally known as such because they can maintain their top end, and good staters are known, in part, as good starters because they can't maintain their top end or don't have any (I expect you all knew that anyway :wink: ).

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

                      Originally posted by RJMB_1
                      Assuming the sprinters can maintain whatever top end speeds they have, I would say the guy with top end speed on balance beats the good starter. Having said that, sprinters with good top end are generally known as such because they can maintain their top end, and good staters are known, in part, as good starters because they can't maintain their top end or don't have any (I expect you all knew that anyway :wink: ).
                      So SAF, who is a very good starter, is she known as a very good starter as one with top end speed?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

                        Originally posted by 26mi235
                        Originally posted by RJMB_1
                        Assuming the sprinters can maintain whatever top end speeds they have, I would say the guy with top end speed on balance beats the good starter. Having said that, sprinters with good top end are generally known as such because they can maintain their top end, and good staters are known, in part, as good starters because they can't maintain their top end or don't have any (I expect you all knew that anyway :wink: ).
                        So SAF, who is a very good starter, is she known as a very good starter as one with top end speed?
                        She also has good top end which she can sometimes maintain; but alas, it's all relative: (in these cases) is her combination of very good start and good top end just holding off those with very good top end, or is it some other combination that gives an explaination?...the definitive choice is yours .... :wink:

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: For 100m: Good Start or Top End Speed?

                          If you notice from top sprinters, a really good pick up into top speed is key. Too slow and you're probably out of the race.

                          Good starters like Dwain Chambers don't seem to follow through as well esp. considering how useful they look in 60m indoors, is a mixture of poor pick-up in the race compared to their competitors.

                          Top end speed endurance like godd start can be improved better in young age through practice and coaching, but it will obviously help if the sprinter has good pick-up/good start already or maintains their top speed well at the end of the race (either move away from their opponents, or recover after a stumbnle/poor start and reel them in.)

                          My two cents.
                          Nicola Sanders 07' WCF 400mW: 49.65 secs [Osaka]

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X