Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

[Asterix]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>Just because you want me to research something for
>you doesn't mean I'll actually do it dumb-dumb.

I realize that since I posted the following in another thread, it is possible you didn't make the correlation with this subject and so haven't yet responded to it. My apologies for any confusion and I look forward to being properly educated on the facts you apparently had at your disposal when you stated with authority that the throws were "high risk" events.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I have done some research and found:

http://www.unc.edu/news/newsserv/archiv ... uellr8.htm

Most of the article is on pole vaulting fatalities and you seemed to only be concerned with accidents from throws. So the relevant paragraph would be:

"From 1982 to 1997, researchers found three other deaths from track and field events, three accidents causing permanent disability and seven other serious injuries from which the athletes recovered. A thrown discus, a heavy shot used in the shot put event or javelin struck 10 of these high school athletes."

Given the huge numbers of high school participants in track and field (would you like me to dig up those number for you?) could you give me your insurance industry expertise on how this compares in terms of risk factors for youth against such things as: skateboarding accidents, car accidents, drug overdoses, football injuries, swimming drownings and attempts to duplicate events seen on TV with the disclaimer "do NOT try this at home!"?

[hijumpsteve]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

For a number of years I was USATF's insurance broker for their Accident Insurance Program which covers all USATF members for Accident Medical Payments if injured during sanctioned events and organized practices, or while travelling to and from such events. As a throw-in, it also included a $ 25,000 or $ 10,000 Accidental Death Benefit. (This Accidental Death benefit amount changed a few times.) 90 % or more of the total pricing was for the Accident Medical portion; to repeat, the Death Benefit was pretty much a throw-in.

Sadly, there were a few death claims through the years, but they all were either while travelling by auto to and from events, except for one runner that was hit by a car while jogging to the start of a marsthon from his hotel a few blocks away.

The important point here is that in the eyes of all insurance companies ever involved on this account, either actually as the underwriter or as a bidder, no one was concerned one whit about the possibilities of death claims from flying implements or even disastrous pole vaults. Sure, these things were and are still a possibility but were NOT part of the contract pricing whatsoever. All this from the voice of an expert as that's the business I am in.

I was not involved on USATF's Liability Insurance so I cannot speak on that subject.

[MJD]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

The important point here is that in the eyes of all insurance
>companies ever involved on this account, either actually as the underwriter or
>as a bidder, no one was concerned one whit about the possibilities of death
>claims from flying implements or even disastrous pole vaults. Sure, these
>things were and are still a possibility but were NOT part of the contract
>pricing whatsoever. All this from the voice of an expert as that's the
>business I am in.

Asterix-1
Yoogan-0

[marknhj]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

Hey Steve...my company is changing 401k plans from Putnam to Fidelity...which funds would you chose? Might as well use some free advice !

[MJD]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>Hey Steve...my company is changing 401k plans from Putnam to Fidelity...which
>funds would you chose? Might as well use some free advice !


I say that both of you guys should make a comeback in the high jump.

[marknhj]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

I say that both of you guys should make a comeback in the high jump."

I'll check my health insurance and get back to you on that possibility!

[yoogan]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

I was not involved on USATF's Liability Insurance so I
>cannot speak on that subject.


Did you read my original post ??? My statement was on the meet directors liability. If you weren't involved in the USATF's liability , then you are in fact correct, you can't speak on this subject. You must love the taste of leather , you put your foot in your mouth again.

[marknhj]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

Yoogan...please return to whence you came, pronto.

[Asterix]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>Did you read my original post ???

I read your original post, particularly the part where you say that the throws are "high risk , and the potential for suing is to high". I've provided you with research that seems to indicate that no, the risk is not high, nor is the potential for suing.

I also read where you referred to "insurance from our company", which I inferred to mean you work in the insurance industry, and therefore should have access to fact and figures on which to base your statement that those events are "high risk". I presume these facts and figures, if you cared to share them, would make me look a suitable fool and discredit the arguement I've put forth. Instead, I've been called a peanut brain and a dumb-dumb, among other things. Reminds me of a saying about a pot, a kettle, and the colour black.

And since I'm on the topic of your original post, can I ask you about your line "These events could be carried out in a closed protective bubble"? Can you explain how these events "could" be carried out and what exactly this protective bubble entails?

I look forward to reading the expertise you can provide on this subject.

[Asterix]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>Just because you want me to research something for
>you doesn't mean I'll actually do it dumb-dumb.

Yoogan, further to my above reference to Mueller's statistics indicating the low incidence rate of injuries resulting from throws (seperate from the significantly higher risk posed by the pole vault), I've dug up a further cite.

From the American Journal of Sports Medicine, Frederick Mueller (he seems to be THE guy for sports related accidents, as I'm sure you're aware already) has an article on catastrophic injuries in the pole vault. Again, I know you said specifically the throws were "high risk", and are not worried about the pole vault, but in the article available at http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m091 ... html?term= there is the following segment:

"Track and field sports are considered by most people to carry a relatively low risk of catastrophic injury. Although this is accurate for the running events, catastrophic accidents have been associated with both throwing events and pole vaulting. Reported injuries occurring during throwing events have all involved spectators or athletes being hit by a shot put, discus, hammer, or javelin[3]; such injuries can easily be prevented by following simple safety measures."

Although there is no stats provided here with respect to injuries from the dreaded throws, reference [3] is as follows:

[3.] Mueller FO: Individual sports, in Mueller FO, Cantu RC, Van Camp SP (eds): Catastrophic Injuries in High School and College Sports. Champaign, IL, Human Kinetics Sport Science Monograph Series, 1996, pp 77-97

I'll concede I do not have this book, nor do I forsee it likely I will obtain it, but I will go out on a limb and suggest to you that it will further contradict your insurance industry derived belief that throws are "high risk". If the text says otherwise, by all means, edify me. I would presume you must have referred to it or something similar when you made your claim about throws being too high risk for your insurance company to cover.

Thanks again for your attention and I look forward to the expertise you can provide.

[gh]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

Yoogan ain't gonna be postin' nothin' awhile.

[MJD]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>Yoogan ain't gonna be postin' nothin' awhile.

Gee, which post was it?

[tafnut]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

I noticed the satch thread MIA too.

[girble_teeth]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>>Just because you want me to research something for
>you doesn't mean I'll
>actually do it dumb-dumb.

Yoogan, further to my above reference to
>Mueller's statistics indicating the low incidence rate of injuries resulting
>from throws (seperate from the significantly higher risk posed by the pole
>vault), I've dug up a further cite.

From the American Journal of Sports
>Medicine, Frederick Mueller (he seems to be THE guy for sports related
>accidents, as I'm sure you're aware already) has an article on catastrophic
>injuries in the pole vault. Again, I know you said specifically the throws
>were "high risk", and are not worried about the pole vault, but in the
>article available at
>http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m...le.jhtml?term=
>there is the following segment:

"Track and field sports are considered by
>most people to carry a relatively low risk of catastrophic injury. Although
>this is accurate for the running events, catastrophic accidents have been
>associated with both throwing events and pole vaulting. Reported injuries
>occurring during throwing events have all involved spectators or athletes being
>hit by a shot put, discus, hammer, or javelin[3]; such injuries can easily be
>prevented by following simple safety measures."

Although there is no stats
>provided here with respect to injuries from the dreaded throws, reference [3]
>is as follows:

[3.] Mueller FO: Individual sports, in Mueller FO, Cantu RC,
>Van Camp SP (eds): Catastrophic Injuries in High School and College Sports.
>Champaign, IL, Human Kinetics Sport Science Monograph Series, 1996, pp
>77-97

I'll concede I do not have this book, nor do I forsee it likely I will
>obtain it, but I will go out on a limb and suggest to you that it will further
>contradict your insurance industry derived belief that throws are "high
>risk". If the text says otherwise, by all means, edify me. I would presume
>you must have referred to it or something similar when you made your claim
>about throws being too high risk for your insurance company to cover.

Thanks
>again for your attention and I look forward to the expertise you can provide.


Yoogan's delivery is a bit skewed... but his/her basic idea is correct. I work in the Insurance industry , event liability is an issue across the board , just ask your local road race director. The type of events included is also an issue. An event that has Jav/Sput/Hammer/Disc in it pay higher premiums. That's the way it is , and thats why , based on outrages liability premiums you don't see too many throws events. I feel sorry that you need to spend so much time on this topic. I wish your life was more fulfilling and that you would be a happier person.

[marknhj]

Re: Insurance Coverage for Track Event Promoters

>>Yoogan ain't gonna be postin' nothin' awhile.

Is it a two year ban or did his multiple abuses result in a lifetime one?