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Could top men break 6:00

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  • Asterix
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    "Thanks Asterix for your input. By chance have you had a chance to step up past the marathon distance?"

    Let me worry about stepping up to the marathon distance before I step up past it.

    I think you've already identified the big differential between marathon and 100k with your later post of:
    "I was somewhat surprised in the difference I saw from the marathon to the 50k and that is "just" 5 extra miles."

    Given the concept of glycogen stores lasting about 2 hours/20 miles, top marathoners are just squeeking in to the finish. Going much farther (even the 5 miles you mention), is a whole different ball game.

    Leave a comment:


  • 5k Guy
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    I was somewhat surprised in the difference I saw from the marathon to the 50k and that is "just" 5 extra miles.

    It seems like the most likely marathon candidates would be some of the Japenese and African marathoners who already are doing 150-175 miles a week. They would just need to change how they did those miles (i.e less runs but longer ones).

    A 10k specialists who ramps up from 90-110 miles a week to 110-130 miles for a marathon is probably not a good candidate.

    Leave a comment:


  • MJD
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    Thanks Asterix for your input. By chance have you had a chance to
    >step up past the marathon distance?

    One step at a time.

    Leave a comment:


  • DG
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    I wonder how Paula Radcliffe would do in this distance considering the milage she is doing in training (I forgot how much but it boggled my mind when i heard it).

    Who else you think would be good at the distance?

    Leave a comment:


  • 5k Guy
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    <<<<Most importantly though for your hypothetical suppositions, is that unlike the mile to the marathon, there does not exist the same level of reward (financial and popularity) to move from the marathon to the ultra. That is likely the biggest hindrance to getting the really fast guys to go for 6 hours. Why should they? >>>>

    I whole heartly agree. Not much chance that the top guys will try it. My question was only what if they did, what could do at 100k? Hypothetical? - yes, interesting? to me yes, but maybe not so to many others.

    Thanks Asterix for your input. By chance have you had a chance to step up past the marathon distance?

    Leave a comment:


  • Asterix
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    Similarly, there are also examples of milers to the marathon (Rod Dixon and that Arabic Frenchman whose name slips my mind (El Mouazzi?)who each ran 2:08 or so). And while not strictly a miler, Geb has a 3:31 and 2:06 to his credit.

    But from what I recall of Salazar's Comrades training, it was significantly different than what one would do for a fast marathon. Given the goal race time of 6 hours or so, I think ultra runners often get in 4+ hour runs, which, obviously are tackled rather differently than they would a 22 - 24 miler.

    "Surely the marathoners moving up would need time to learn the "tricks" of this new distance."

    Just like a 3:50 miler would have to get over the mental hurdle of taking it "easy" and only running 4:50s for a while.

    Most importantly though for your hypothetical suppositions, is that unlike the mile to the marathon, there does not exist the same level of reward (financial and popularity) to move from the marathon to the ultra. That is likely the biggest hindrance to getting the really fast guys to go for 6 hours. Why should they?

    Leave a comment:


  • 5k Guy
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    <<<<Might not a similar comparison be wondering how the best milers would do at the marathon? My guess is that the training required to suceed over 100km would be as different from marathon specific stuff as the latter is from the mile (or maybe the 3000/5000). I think history has shown that being damn good at the shorter distance does not necessarily equate to being equally good over the longer distance and vice versa.>>>

    Good points Asterix. This was my original thought as well but since we do have a couple of examples (Abe, Salazar, Tuttle) making the move with some success I wanted to see what others thought.

    From what I have gathered there is not a tremendous difference in the training volumes of top marthoners vs top 100k runners.

    A top marathoner might do 150 miles a week broken out into 13 runs including a good track work-out, a race pace tempo run and long run of 25-30 miles.

    A top ultra-runner might do 150 miles a week broken out into 8 to 10 runs including a moderately long run of 20-25 miles, a faster tempo run of 15 miles and long run of 30-40 miles.

    So it seems as though some might be able to make the transition in training although racing may be another matter.

    The biggest difference I noticed in racing a 1/2 marathon or marathon and racing a 50k is the mental fatigue of being out there for an extra 30 - to 2 hours in race conditions.

    Surely the marathoners moving up would need time to learn the "tricks" of this new distance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Asterix
    replied
    Re: Could top men break 6:00

    > I hestitate to say that being a good marathoner would make one a good
    >100k runner. But surely a few of the top guys would be able to handle the
    >switch.

    Might not a similar comparison be wondering how the best milers would do at the marathon? My guess is that the training required to suceed over 100km would be as different from marathon specific stuff as the latter is from the mile (or maybe the 3000/5000). I think history has shown that being damn good at the shorter distance does not necessarily equate to being equally good over the longer distance and vice versa.

    Leave a comment:


  • 5k Guy
    started a topic Could top men break 6:00

    Could top men break 6:00

    Here is a question with appeal only to some so I apologize to those not interested.

    Could the top men marathoners of today break the 6 hour barrier for 100k (62 miles) if so motived.

    The current world record is 6:13:33 set by Takahiro Sunada of Japan in 1998.

    Not many world class men marathoners have tried this ulra distance. A few national class have tried (John Tuttle most notably in the US in 2000 and Al Salazars Conrade win in the 1990's) with limited success.

    Tomoe Abe, winner of several major women's marathons and world ranked #5 in 1993 and # 4 in 1994 (and stil competitive today) moved up to the 100k ultra distance in 2000 and smashed the women's WR down to 6:33:11 a mind boggling performance.

    The women's marathon WR is approximately 8% slower than the men's WR. If we use that 8% standard the men's WR should be about 6:03 or roughly 10 minutes faster than the current mark.

    But one could also argue that women are better suited for the Ultra distances and thus the difference is likley lower for the 100k distance maybe 5 or 6% differential. Using this lower standard the men's current WR would be about were it should be.

    Having run competitively at distances from the mile through the 50k (31 miles) I hestitate to say that being a good marathoner would make one a good 100k runner. But surely a few of the top guys would be able to handle the switch.

    Does anyone on this board have any further insight to what these guys might be able to do?
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