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Fastest High School Boys only mile list

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  • Fastest High School Boys only mile list

    Is there a reason that the list posted on he TFN front page is missing Jantzen Oshier's 4:00.83 1600m from this year's CIF State Meet?

  • #2
    Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

    brain fart

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    • #3
      Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

      Originally posted by gh
      brain fart
      Oh, I see! Haha!

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      • #4
        Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

        The guy fifth (actually sixth) on that list has to be the most stealth boy miler ever! Finishing second to Verz will do that to you!!

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        • #5
          Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

          I notice that the list mentions that it excludes converted 1500s, which raises an arcane trivia question in my mind - has there EVER been a fast prep-only 1500 meter race? What is the fastest?

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          • #6
            Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

            you can get a partial answer to that simply by going to the records section.

            3:44.0 by Ryun in '65. But that's only a "partial answer" because that was an en route time in a mile. All preps in a 1500 race, who knows? Probably not very fast?

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            • #7
              Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

              I'll add a second query regarding that list.

              In Webb's 4:01.81 at Arcadia, he was clocked at 1600 in 3:59.51, which happens to stand as the current federation record. (Yeah, I know, 3:58.3, we've been over that one . . . ) The difference between the two times is 2.3 seconds.

              Perhaps this was debated at the time, but is there any consensus on why the two times are so different? I've seen video of the race, and it certainly didn't appear that Webb had slowed so much as to take 2.3 seconds to cover a bit over 9 meters.

              I wasn't at Arcadia that night, so I don't know if the start line was moved back for the race or if the finish line was extended. From how it was done in other years, it would likely have been the former.

              I wonder if it's possible that someone mismeasured, and Webb actually ran longer than a mile that night. (One would presume that the 1600 is measured correctly, since it just requires putting a camera on the start line, regardless of where that line might be.)

              Trivia question - who was voted Athlete of the Meet the night of Webb's 3:59/4:01?

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              • #8
                Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                Originally posted by gh
                But that's only a "partial answer" because that was an en route time in a mile. All preps in a 1500 race, who knows? Probably not very fast?
                Precisely.

                (I'm guessing 3:44 was probably en route to the 3:58 - which would mean he had one hell of a finish that day, just as an aside.)

                Which states run 1500 in their state meets? New York and Oregon? The Oregon meet record might be fairly quick.

                We also ran 1500 at Arcadia one year, back early in the "metric era", when even the state meet was still Imperial. But I think the winning time was only about 3:49, if that fast.

                If I remember, I'll ask Jack. If he doesn't have the information, no one does.

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                • #9
                  Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                  Originally posted by gh
                  you can get a partial answer to that simply by going to the records section.

                  3:44.0 by Ryun in '65. But that's only a "partial answer" because that was an en route time in a mile. All preps in a 1500 race, who knows? Probably not very fast?
                  Penn Relays ran 1500 from 1980 through '97. The record is 3:49.67 by Paul Vandegrift in 1987.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                    I remember watching a pretty decent discus competition that night. Perhaps the guy who won it was the meet's top athlete?

                    The 3:44 occurred at Ryun's State AA meet, and may have been a "coach's time." One of the HS list compilers at the time thought so.

                    Webb was moving fast at the end of his 2001 Arcadia mile, and the 2.3-second gap is indeed odd. The race was a full mile, with the start line moved back.

                    Paul Medvin won that 1500, back in 79.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                      Originally posted by cigar95
                      I wonder if it's possible that someone mismeasured, and Webb actually ran longer than a mile that night. (One would presume that the 1600 is measured correctly, since it just requires putting a camera on the start line, regardless of where that line might be.)
                      Since the mile is pretty standard for a 'non-standard' event, it would seem unlikely to be mismeasured. Some of the tracks I am familiar with even have a starting line for the mile, which usually requires an 'arc' to aim at a equal distance (hence a reason to have a permanent marking rather than just pushing start back. By the way, how to they start a 1600, since it begins on the curve; it must also be an arc, right?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                        Originally posted by tc
                        I remember watching a pretty decent discus competition that night. Perhaps the guy who won it was the meet's top athlete?
                        Bingo, Tom. I'm not surprised you came up with this one. (A NR by ten feet is tough to top for AoM.)

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                        • #13
                          Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                          Originally posted by 26mi235
                          Since the mile is pretty standard for a 'non-standard' event, it would seem unlikely to be mismeasured. Some of the tracks I am familiar with even have a starting line for the mile, which usually requires an 'arc' to aim at a equal distance (hence a reason to have a permanent marking rather than just pushing start back. By the way, how to they start a 1600, since it begins on the curve; it must also be an arc, right?
                          I don't believe the Arcadia track has a premarked start line for the mile. It would have been done on the fly with tape. If Doug Speck or Rich had done the marking himself, it would certainly have been correct, but if it was delegated to someone else, I can see where a calculation might have been done incorrectly, and somehow the start line got moved back by 14 meters instead of 9.xx.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                            Originally posted by cigar95
                            I don't believe the Arcadia track has a premarked start line for the mile. It would have been done on the fly with tape. If Doug Speck or Rich had done the marking himself, it would certainly have been correct, but if it was delegated to someone else, I can see where a calculation might have been done incorrectly, and somehow the start line got moved back by 14 meters instead of 9.xx.
                            It's not hard to eyeball the difference between a 14m gap from mile starting line to finish line and a 9m gap. Surely someone has a picture or video of this race where we can see the difference. A quick internet search, however, did not turn one up. I found several old dyestat pictures, but none of them include both the mile starting line and the finish line.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Fastest High School Boys only mile list

                              Originally posted by DecFan
                              It's not hard to eyeball the difference between a 14m gap from mile starting line to finish line and a 9m gap. . . .
                              *If* you know that the gap should be 9m. If someone does the wrong calculation, we could end up with a problem. But still, there were very good people in the press box that night, and one would think *they* could tell the difference. (*Why* didn't I go that night? Must've been some sort of church obligation . . . . . )

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