the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

[gh]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

Given the current exchange rates, Euro meets can buy American athletes with pocket change :mrgreen:

(I'm still suffering from sticker shock)

[tandfman]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

Invitational meets in Europe, both big and small, have been disappearing from the calendar for decades. The current economic conditions there these days can only make things worse.

[gh]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

there are invitationals and there are invitationals: T&FN got dire warnings from agents back at the beginning of the year that meaningful non-DL competition was becoming an endangered species. And boy, were they spot-on.

Think minor-league baseball. Once MLB went coast-to-coast and televised games became the norm, a once-wonderful structure almost completely collapsed. The IAAF wouldn't admit to it, but the same thing, I fear, is now happening to a once vibrant secondary circuit.

You need only look at the latest Track Newsletter to see the quality of "competition" that is available, particularly to Americans. It just ain't there.

(And I'm the elitist pig who cares about little beneath the highest echelons of the sport, at least when it comes to personal viewing pleasure. What we're talking here is the cannibalization of the sport. My column in the magazine a couple of months back talked about the collapse of competitive domestic opportunities for the "average" pro in the U.S. in May. Whatever starts in the U.S. moves to Europe. You have been warned.)

[tandfman]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

I believe the gap is so pronounced this year because the DL has made meets sparse. Where are the Salamanca meets, the Belgian circuit, the small German meets?

The EAA calendar shows 12 invitational meets in the two weeks following the London DL, including meets in Belgium and Germany. Plus many national championships.

[Ned Ryerson]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

I do not think the over 2 weeks of inactivity is healthy for the sport. Not everyone makes their national teams, so there is no reason to have these huge gaps. More to the point I believe the gap is so pronounced this year because the DL has made meets sparse. Where are the Salamanca meets, the Belgian circuit, the small German meets? With the invention of the DL, we have lost the minor meets which leads to less exposure and more dependence on the DL meets. So when London ended, it all ended.
Combined with the lull in the mens sprints and the 1500, there is a gap in marketing. Again, this adds to the 19 days of nothingness. London seems like it was 3 weeks ago, not 1 week.
Someone mentioned golf, almost all the players play the week before a major to get a rhythm, Tiger always does. In comparison, Jeshua Anderson is at the World University Games this week to compete. He is over a second faster than the entire field, but he wanted a race I assume.

I think it's important to keep in mind that a significant number of the athletes who just miss the cut for their team at Worlds don't find out until right about this time, so many of them are preparing and planning their racing as if they're going.

I don't think there's the demand for a major meet for this lull, loaded with athletes who didn't make their federation's cut for Worlds. There are meets going right now (like Leuven) but they're at the level that I would guess is possible, with nearly all the major stars focused on Worlds.

What I DO miss is the post-post season Asian circuit that has completely shifted to May. It was good to have the well to do Super Meet, Daegu and Shanghai at the second half of September, both for guys who got a late start and came on strong at the end, and for people who performed exceptionally well at the major championship and could do well for themselves in those last two weeks of the season.

[26mi235]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

Isn't it strange how the NFL's four best teams play the week before the Super Bowl? And baseball players are challenged almost every night, with only a day off for travel, before the World Series?

I thought that football had two weeks before the Super Bowl. As for baseball, they are up against the calendar in multiple ways. They could build in several down days but then there would be fewer (revenue) games in the regular season. As it is, if teams get swept there is a hiatus. I just read the biography of Sandy Koufax and he famously pitched with two days rest in the World Series (Twins?) and the pennant race before it, I think.

[Smoke]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

I do not think the over 2 weeks of inactivity is healthy for the sport. Not everyone makes their national teams, so there is no reason to have these huge gaps. More to the point I believe the gap is so pronounced this year because the DL has made meets sparse. Where are the Salamanca meets, the Belgian circuit, the small German meets? With the invention of the DL, we have lost the minor meets which leads to less exposure and more dependence on the DL meets. So when London ended, it all ended.
Combined with the lull in the mens sprints and the 1500, there is a gap in marketing. Again, this adds to the 19 days of nothingness. London seems like it was 3 weeks ago, not 1 week.
Someone mentioned golf, almost all the players play the week before a major to get a rhythm, Tiger always does. In comparison, Jeshua Anderson is at the World University Games this week to compete. He is over a second faster than the entire field, but he wanted a race I assume.

[Powell]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

.....

Like I said earlier, when the WC/OG are in Europe, there's never going to be a problem. But as soon as it involves travelling 8 time zones, the scheduling will always be tough.....

If you think of Europe as the center of the universe, you are correct. Easy for you to forget that for North/Central Americans, Europe is 6-9 time zones away.

I seriously don't understand what your point is. We are talking about the time between the last European meet and the major championships. It doesn't matter what continent you come from, if you're already in Europe competing on the DL circuit, you are not going to have to travel far to the major championships if they are in Europe. And you will have to cross many time zones to get to Korea after competing in Europe even if you come from the Far East.

[gh]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

.....

Like I said earlier, when the WC/OG are in Europe, there's never going to be a problem. But as soon as it involves travelling 8 time zones, the scheduling will always be tough.....

If you think of Europe as the center of the universe, you are correct. Easy for you to forget that for North/Central Americans, Europe is 6-9 time zones away.

[Ned Ryerson]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

The overwhelming feeling on the circuit is that London DL this year was late enough but just ok. Most athletes can't wait to get home for two or more weeks of training prior to the championships. I'm not sure how it goes next year prior to London but I'm pretty sure a lot of leading athletes will 'shut it down' earlier in order to prepare for the Olympics. In no year do (modern) athletes just roll on from the circuit to championships as if it's just another stop. Then of course there is the Federations who encourage athletes to be in pre-championships training camps. In fact doesn't it make better sense to have a three week break? Most athletes would say definately yes.....

The problem I have with this, is that no really popular sport (that I can think of) cares about optimum preparation. Team sports have schedules that are very long and have absolutely nothing to do with optimum preparation. As a fan I would take more truly high level meets over one great meet every single time. I may or may not be in the minority on this.

Team sports have schedules that are set by their leagues. Their only ability to negotiate their schedule is, in some cases, to perform well enough that they can win favorable seeding or win a series early and play fewer games.

But as an individual sport, David Rudisha is allowed to decide what's best for David Rudisha. London can offer him a king's ransom, but Rudisha is not obligated to accept it. Everyone agrees that the Olympic and World Championships are absolutely the most important events on the calendar because of the earning potential that comes from performing well there. The only way to change that is if you put more money into the circuit than could possibly be gained by being the Olympic or World Champion in your event.

I think if you told jlt, "We'll pay Rudisha €1 million per meet to run every Diamond League meet featuring the 800m, but that fee is severely reduced if he misses one," I would guess that would take priority over the year's major championship. But such an arrangement is not possible today. The flip side of course, is that if it were even possible to arrange such a deal, you could have a meet paying a huge sum for someone that isn't in world beater shape, but is showing up to not lose out on the agreed upon money.

[vip]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

Isn't it strange how the NFL's four best teams play the week before the Super Bowl? And baseball players are challenged almost every night, with only a day off for travel, before the World Series?

I guess track athletes, most of them anyway, are so fragile and have so much invested in one meet out of the year that they have to "shut it down" for safety/training reasons. I submit that if an athlete isn't ready to compete in the WC or Olympics by now, 2 weeks will not make that big a difference.

The fault lies in the way track is set up, and also with the sponsors, who tie so much of an athlete's earnings on what he/she does in the WC or Olympics. Until that changes, we will continue to get what we get now.

[donley2]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

The overwhelming feeling on the circuit is that London DL this year was late enough but just ok. Most athletes can't wait to get home for two or more weeks of training prior to the championships. I'm not sure how it goes next year prior to London but I'm pretty sure a lot of leading athletes will 'shut it down' earlier in order to prepare for the Olympics. In no year do (modern) athletes just roll on from the circuit to championships as if it's just another stop. Then of course there is the Federations who encourage athletes to be in pre-championships training camps. In fact doesn't it make better sense to have a three week break? Most athletes would say definately yes.....

The problem I have with this, is that no really popular sport (that I can think of) cares about optimum preparation. Team sports have schedules that are very long and have absolutely nothing to do with optimum preparation. As a fan I would take more truly high level meets over one great meet every single time. I may or may not be in the minority on this.

[jlt]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

The overwhelming feeling on the circuit is that London DL this year was late enough but just ok. Most athletes can't wait to get home for two or more weeks of training prior to the championships. I'm not sure how it goes next year prior to London but I'm pretty sure a lot of leading athletes will 'shut it down' earlier in order to prepare for the Olympics. In no year do (modern) athletes just roll on from the circuit to championships as if it's just another stop. Then of course there is the Federations who encourage athletes to be in pre-championships training camps. In fact doesn't it make better sense to have a three week break? Most athletes would say definately yes.....

[Daisy]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

The most reasonable solution I can imagine for a year like this would be to have the Shanghai DL (and the other major invitationals in the Far East) in August directly before the WC.

Makes perfect sense from a scheduling perspective.

[Powell]

Re: the worst major-meet scheduling ever?

By the way, with the loose definition of a "weekend" being Friday-Saturday-Sunday, note that next year's schedule has only one weekend off between last DL and start of Oly track. Compared to this year's 2. Obviously, it can be done.

Like I said earlier, when the WC/OG are in Europe, there's never going to be a problem. But as soon as it involves travelling 8 time zones, the scheduling will always be tough. A lot of athletes will travel (or have already travelled) to Asia a couple of weeks before the competition, and it just would not reasonable to have DL meets within this period.

The most reasonable solution I can imagine for a year like this would be to have the Shanghai DL (and the other major invitationals in the Far East) in August directly before the WC. But I'm not sure whether the meet organizers would be willing to adjust the schedule like that, moving their meets from May one year to August the next.