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Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs


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  • #61
    Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

    Do you all know that Richard Thompson has a PB of 9.89 dating back to Beijing Olympics? Him doing 9.85 is no surprise because his technique fluctuates that's is why he hasn't been a consistent 9.90's runner. In Beijing 100m he ran a superb race and I think in Trinidad trials he ran just about a perfect race. Plus, on top of that I think he was a little tick off about being force to run at the trials, after he ask to be exempt. He is a guy that does show up when the bright lights are on, most people were saying he would not make final, but I know Usain Bolt know what he is talking about when he said he expect most of the competition from his fellow Jamaicans and the Caribbean. I always had Richard Thompson be in final, but I still don't see him on podium. Thompson is a gamer.


    • #62
      Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

      I repeat: if Thompson had run a 9.85 out the blue, solo, it wouldn't be the topic of discussion this is. What raises questions is the raft of people also about 0.15 faster on the year behind him, all at the same time. That's an unusual occurrence.


      • #63
        Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

        Threads like this are why I really enjoy Track & Field News and why all of you should be subscribing to the rag and clicking thorough the adds so we don't lose it. It's a business, not a service.


        • #64
          Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

          Great posts, Giant Panda!!


          • #65
            Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

            Originally posted by gh
            The men's 100, with improvement over previous seasonal best

            1. Thompson 0.16
            2. Bledman -0.13 (but supposedly injured?)
            3. Armstrong 0.06 (0.19 in meets not in Pt of Spain)
            4. Burns 0.08 (0.18 in meets not in POS)
            5. Callender 0.04 (0.17 in non-POS)
            6. Brown 0.18
            7. Sorrillo 0.01

            a non-auto-timing hypothesis isn't looking all that bad when you look at the consistency of non-POS improvements of 0.16, 0.13, 0.19, 0.18, 0.17
            Those 7 Trini finalists and what they did after that meet.

            Thompson (9.85): 10.20, 10.23, 10.34
            Bledman (10.06): 10.14, 10.32
            Burns (10.09): a 21.38 in the 200
            Armstrong (10.07): 10.48
            Callender (10.12): a 20.97 in the 200
            Brown (10.13): nothing
            Sorrillo (10.17/20.16): 20.34, 20.56, 20.68

            So, yeah, I still have serious doubts as to the validity of the times in that race. (And remembering that isn't like the U.S. or Jamaican Trials, which were in June; this was just 2 weeks before Daegu).


            • #66
              Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

              GH - how will T&F News treat the TnT performance in their world list?


              • #67
                Re: Richard Thompson 9.85s (+1.0m/s) NR, T&T National Champs

                Originally posted by Giant Panda
                As much as you'd like that to be true it is not true.

                In the first round Dix ran a 9.96 +1.7, only three others under 10.10. (Patton, Padgett, Ivory Williams.) Most ran mid 10.1. 16 out of 30 qualified automatically from four heats with eight fastest losers. 2 DNS and 6 eliminated. All 32 athletes had satisfied an entry standard of 10.19.

                The quarter finals is where the fast legal times came. Three heats of eight, first four from each, plus four fastest losers. It might be instructive to note that 21 athletes ran under 10.20 in the first round.

                Heat one, the strongest, featured six athletes who by now have run 10.06 or faster outside of Eugene, the junior, Demps, and Teddy Williams with a season best of 10.12. Gay made a statement and broke the American record. Nobody else ran under ten seconds, but Demps, Dix, and Dixon took the automatic places in 10.01-10.02-10.02. Rodgers and Spearmon would eventually advance with 10.07. Samuels ran 10.09. The thing here is the depth, not the times.

                Immediately everybody is on notice that the fastest loser places need to be 10.0x, and Gay might be in world record shape.

                Padgett wins the second heat in 9.89 +1.6 from Martin 9.95 and Jelks 9.99. Nobody else breaks 10.12, though that puts Hargrett into the semis (he pulls up) and none of the fast losers come from this, the weakest heat.

                Heat three is set up knowing the fastest losers currently sit at 10.07, 10.07, 10.09 and 10.12. At the time it was run, the life time bests of the eight athletes were 9.88, 9.95, 10.00, 10.02, 10.07, 10.08, 10.09, and 10.17. So seven athletes know they all have a chance to advance if they run faster than 10.07, and there are only four automatic places. Patton, who later makes the Olympic final, takes it in 9.89 +1.6, from Williams 9.94 (a time he eclipsed in 2009). Carter 10.00 and Capel 10.06 get the final two automatic spots. Edwards and Holliday squeeze through as fastest losers 10.06 and 10.09, at the expense of 7th place in heat one (Samuels 10.09) and 5th place in heat two (Stevens 10.12). Crawford, ironically the fastest man in the race, comes seventh and misses out with 10.09. His focus was the 200, which he won in 19.73w.

                Note the +1.6 wind speeds. Using JRM's adjustment tool, with 126m elevation, a time of 10.00 converts to 10.08.

                1 Tyson Gay adidas A 9.77Q 1.6
                2 Travis Padgett unattached T 9.89Q 1.6 9.884
                3 Darvis Patton adidas T 9.89Q 1.6 9.888
                4 Ivory Williams Nike 9.94Q 1.6
                5 Rodney Martin Nike 9.95Q 1.6
                6 Jeffery Demps unattached 10.01Q 1.6
                7 Mark Jelks Nike 9.99Q 1.6
                8 Xavier Carter Nike 10.00Q 1.6
                9 Walter Dix Florida State 10.02Q 1.6 10.011
                10 Leroy Dixon Nike 10.02Q 1.6 10.018
                11 John Capel unattached 10.06Q 1.6 10.053
                12 Chrisdon Hargrett adidas 10.12Q 1.6 10.113
                13 Rae Edwards Nike 10.06q 1.6 10.056
                14 Michael Rodgers unattached 10.07q 1.6 10.063
                15 Wallace Spearmon Nike 10.07q 1.6 10.069
                16 Trindon Holliday L S U 10.09q 1.6 10.083
                17 J-Mee Samuels Arkansas 10.09 1.6 10.088
                18 Shawn Crawford Nike 10.09 1.6 10.090
                19 Kendall Stevens unattached 10.12 1.6 10.114
                20 Mardy Scales unattached 10.15 1.6
                21 Mickey Grimes Nike 10.22 1.6
                22 Teddy Williams Tx-San Antonio 10.24 1.6
                23 Rubin Williams Tennessee 10.26 1.6 10.256
                24 Jeremy Hall Florida 10.26 1.6 10.260

                All this fuss about six men running under 10.00 with a +1.6, and eleven more under 10.10? 37 men in the world ran under 10.10 in 2008, 43 the following year. This year we're at 26 already, and it's the first week of June. Are all those marks suspicious too?

                Let's look how the Eugene field's times compare to their performances elsewhere:

                Gay - 9.69, 9.71, 9.77, 9.77, 9.78, 9.79, 9.79
                Padgett - 9.89, 9.96, 9.99, 10.00 (age 19 years) 9.85w in final.
                Patton - 9.89, 9.89, 9.94, 9.94, 9.95, 9.98, 9.98 9.84w in final.
                I Willliams - 9.93, 9.94, 9.95, 10.02
                Martin - 9.95, I'll give you this. He has run 19.99 and came 4th in Osaka at 200m.
                Demps - 10.01, 10.06, 10.06. Plays football. 9.96w WJR holder. Wait for NCAA.
                Jelks - 9.99, 10.02, 10.04, 10.04, got a 2 year suspension.
                Carter - 10.00, bear in mind he ran 19.63 and the NCAA 100/400 10.09 -0.5 and 44.53 35 mins apart.
                Dix - only ran 10.02 to qualify. 9.80w +4.1. Double Olympic bronze. 9.88/19.72
                Dixon - 10.02, 10.06, 10.07, 10.07, 10.07,
                Capel - only ran 10.06 to qualify. 9.95/19.85 lifetime bests.
                Hargrett - 10.12. Only has a couple of 10.19s but did give Nesta Carter a decent race that year in Brazil. Presume he got injured. Did pull up in final.
                Edwards - 10.06 to qualify. 10.00, 10.02 elsewhere.
                Rodgers - 10.07 to qualify. 9.85, 9.94, 9.96, 9.97, 9.98,
                Spearmon - 10.07 to qualify. Bests of 9.96/19.65
                Holliday - 10.09 to qualify. 10.00, 10.00, 10.01, 10.02, 10.05, 10.06, 10.07, 10.08. Football.
                Samuels - Eliminated 10.09. Best of 10.03
                Crawford - Eliminated 10.09. 9.88/1979 Won 200 in 19.73w
                Stevens - Eliminated 10.12. 10.18 the previous year.
                Scales - Eliminated 10.15. Former NCAA champion best of 10.07
                Grimes - Eliminated 10.22. Best of 9.99. Served drugs ban.
                T Williams - Eliminated 10.24. 19 at the time, ran 10.16 earlier that year.
                R Williams - Eliminated 10.26. Best of 10.12 that year.
                Hall - Eliminated 10.26. 10.08 the following year.

                Qualification was deep and tough. Seventeen athletes came ready to run 10.0x in the quarters and there were only sixteen places in the semis. The prize being making the Olympic squad. Looking back now you see eighteen athletes with eventual lifetime bests of 10.03 or faster, and eleven career sub ten athletes. In recent times, championship quarters have been run fast by the top names, so it's part of the preparation in a situation like this. The first round warmed them up, and they caught a nice wind in the evening. Not everybody can handle rounds. For most, this was effectively like running a final to qualify.

                The semis were the next day, Gay and Dix cruised 9.85w and 9.93w, the rest of the field was running out of steam. Martin and Carter advanced 10.08 and 10.09 +2.2, Ivory Williams run out at 10.09, Edward and Holliday 10.16 and 10.17, Hargrett injured himself. Patton only needed 10.04 +0.5 to take the second, from Padgett 10.11, Dixon 10.17, Rodgers 10.18. Spearmon, Capel, Jelks and Demps missed out, 10.18, 10.21, 10.24, 10.34.

                The final, as we know, benefited from +4.1. Gay utilized this to drop a 9.69, a metre clear of Dix 9.80, and Patton 9.84. Adjusted for wind and altitude, that would be 9.86, 9.97, 10.01. Dix took it easy in the quarters because he ran sub 10 in the first round, but Gay and Patton's adjusted times, fresher, the night before, work out to 9.85 and 9.97. So basically they ran the same both nights. Dix ran 9.91(0.0) to take bronze in Beijing and Patton ran 10.03 in the final (didn't he say he cramped a bit?) so they remained consistent. Padgett missed making the team by 0.01 and was ready to run in the final, unlike the others who suffered from the depth of the fields on day one. He looked good on relays in Europe, and remember had run 10.00 as a teenager. Other than those top four, nothing ran in qualification adjusts to faster than 10.02 (Ivory Williams, who paid for running even that, by not making it out of the semis). Martin, Dixon, Rodgers and Carter didn't have enough left for the final, 9.97w, 9.99w, 10.01w, 10.11w. If Gay had remained healthy and beat Dix by the same margin in Beijing, he runs 9.80 for silver, a metre behind Bolt's world record. That's born out by what we saw a year later in Berlin, 9.58 to 9.71.

                Now, of the times run in optimal conditions on day one in Eugene in 2008, by athletes advancing, how many remain as personal bests?

                Padgett 9.89 (adjusts to 9.97) He was unlucky not to run in Beijing, and does have a 9.96.
                Patton 9.89, which he equalled in Shanghai. Patton made finals in Beijing and Berlin.
                Martin 9.95, (adjusts to 10.03) fine, but 4th in Osaka, and 19.99.
                Jelks 9.99 (adjusts to 10.07) Jelks, has run close, and got a 2 year suspension for not reporting his location, and retired.
                Carter 10.00 (adjusts to 10.08) His NCAA winning time adjusts to 10.06, has run 19.63
                Demps 10.01 (adjusts to 10.09) World junior record, focuses on football but looks poised to win NCAA this year and go sub ten.
                Dixon 10.02 (adjusts to 10.10) has run close several times.
                Hargrett 10.12 (adjusts to 10.20)

                Gay, Edwards, and I. Williams set PRs that they subsequently broke.

                Rodgers' best time in 2008 was before US trials. Same for Holliday. And Samuels. Dix didn't PR in Eugene either. Nor did Crawford, Capel, Spearmon..... We won't get into those filling a lane.

                So that's eight guys who ran personal bests that stand to this day, with a +1.6 following wind, during very tough qualification to make the USA's OLYMPIC 100m team.

                Now, which marks do you find suspicious? Think carefully.

                Is it really surprising that people show up ready to run to make an Olympic squad? Only six guys under ten seconds, eleven more under 10.10.

                Okay, out of sixteen guys who made it to the semi finals, eleven ran personal bests.

                The five who did not run personal bests were:

                Walter Dix
                Trindon Holliday
                Mike Rodgers
                John Capel
                Wallace Spearmon

                Rodgers, Dix and Holliday all ran faster that year somewhere else. Spearmon and Capel did run season bests, at trials.

                Of the eleven personal bests, four equalled or bettered those times later:

                Tyson Gay
                Darvis Patton
                Rae Edwards
                Ivory Williams

                Which means seven out of sixteen, less than half, ran current personal bests:

                Chrisdon Hargrett
                Mark Jelks

                Hargrett and Jelks pretty much stopped competing within a year due to injuries.

                Travis Padgett
                Rodney Martin
                Xavier Carter
                Jeff Demps
                Leroy Dixon

                Of the remaining five, Demps (now 21) will PR this year, despite football. Padgett (24) is back to sub ten this year, and may be a threat to make championship teams, if he steps up like he did in 2008.

                Carter (25) we know all about. Martin (28) had two good years, 2007 and 2008, and faded.

                Dixon (28) is a bit of journeyman who caught a +1.6 at Olympic trials. The year before, Asafa Powell famously failed to run him down on the anchor leg of the 4x1, in Osaka.
                What I found dubious was the same wind reading for that one round in all the heats. Also my thing is this, if you can run it once legit, you should be able to run it again legit, especially if you are a young up and coming sprinter, whose best days are supposed to be ahead of you. A guy can run a 9.89, but then have trouble breaking 10 seconds following that, when he is supposed to be getting better and better.