We sprint fans....

[Avante]

......really must love this stuff to put up with what we do. If injuries don't spoil things then drugs will. Then there's..."I bet he's ducking"......sheesh! It "must" be the Worlds/Olympics if we plan on seeing the top dawgs compete against each other. That sucks! What other sport has this kind of bull? Will we see the big race this year....nope! Tyson Gay is hurt. Will we see the big 4x1...nope!....drugs ruined that. Not that it wouldn't have been.."yeah well if Gay had been there"... :roll: Will we see all the stars in alinement in London 2012...nope! Something will spoil that, I gurantee it!

Then anytime anyone runs fast...."I have to question that..........".....it's actually getting funny. Greed is mostly due to why we never see the big dawgs in a race, who can afford them? Greed is also why so many cheat. It's a sad situation

Ah those memories of back when $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ didn't ruin things.Jimmy Hines faced Charlie Green something like 13 times in a two year span. Tommie Smith taking on Lee Evans in a 400.....for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vault-emort]

Re: We sprint fans....

I dunno that things are that much different these days. And it's not just in the sprints where the best fields aren't always competing.

Injuries, non selections, wars, boycotts and the like have been robbing fans of top competitions for over a hundred years. I'm sure quite a few #1 and #2 athletes in an event during the 50s and 60s never met in their entire careers, let alone that particular year.

Cheating has been going on in Olympic events since the early days (eg marathon shortcuts) including drug, money and intersex scandals.

The lure of money stole many of the best amateurs from America (at least) into pro sports for many years. Usain Bolt might have been playing pro football after Beijing if we were back in the 60s.

Times and performances in the past were often suspect (short tracks, downhill tracks, poor timekeeping).

[Avante]

Re: We sprint fans....

I dunno that things are that much different these days. And it's not just in the sprints where the best fields aren't always competing.

Injuries, non selections, wars, boycotts and the like have been robbing fans of top competitions for over a hundred years. I'm sure quite a few #1 and #2 athletes in an event during the 50s and 60s never met in their entire careers, let alone that particular year.

Cheating has been going on in Olympic events since the early days (eg marathon shortcuts) including drug, money and intersex scandals.

The lure of money stole many of the best amateurs from America (at least) into pro sports for many years. Usain Bolt might have been playing pro football after Beijing if we were back in the 60s.

Times and performances in the past were often suspect (short tracks, downhill tracks, poor timekeeping).

As far as sprinting goes I can't buy that the top guys weren't competing against each other back in the day. Just who were you talking about?

It just seems that everything is some big hassle. If a guy runs a faster time than usual he must be dirty. We can't ever get the top three or four guys in a race outside a big Championship affair when they have no choice. Then there's the injuries which can't be helped but when guys never meet..AND...injuries. Then the sport wonders why it gets treated like it does.

[feltdog70]

Re: We sprint fans....

......really must love this stuff to put up with what we do. If injuries don't spoil things then drugs will. Then there's..."I bet he's ducking"......sheesh! It "must" be the Worlds/Olympics if we plan on seeing the top dawgs compete against each other. That sucks! What other sport has this kind of bull? Will we see the big race this year....nope! Tyson Gay is hurt. Will we see the big 4x1...nope!....drugs ruined that. Not that it wouldn't have been.."yeah well if Gay had been there"... :roll: Will we see all the stars in alinement in London 2012...nope! Something will spoil that, I gurantee it!

Then anytime anyone runs fast...."I have to question that..........".....it's actually getting funny. Greed is mostly due to why we never see the big dawgs in a race, who can afford them? Greed is also why so many cheat. It's a sad situation

Ah those memories of back when $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ didn't ruin things.Jimmy Hines faced Charlie Green something like 13 times in a two year span. Tommie Smith taking on Lee Evans in a 400.....for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heck yeah, I wish that I could have seen the race (Smith vs. Evans), but I was not born yet. LOL. Was this when Smith broke the WR for 440 yards? I've looked for it on you-tube, but to no avail!!

[Avante]

Re: We sprint fans....

......really must love this stuff to put up with what we do. If injuries don't spoil things then drugs will. Then there's..."I bet he's ducking"......sheesh! It "must" be the Worlds/Olympics if we plan on seeing the top dawgs compete against each other. That sucks! What other sport has this kind of bull? Will we see the big race this year....nope! Tyson Gay is hurt. Will we see the big 4x1...nope!....drugs ruined that. Not that it wouldn't have been.."yeah well if Gay had been there"... :roll: Will we see all the stars in alinement in London 2012...nope! Something will spoil that, I gurantee it!

Then anytime anyone runs fast...."I have to question that..........".....it's actually getting funny. Greed is mostly due to why we never see the big dawgs in a race, who can afford them? Greed is also why so many cheat. It's a sad situation

Ah those memories of back when $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ didn't ruin things.Jimmy Hines faced Charlie Green something like 13 times in a two year span. Tommie Smith taking on Lee Evans in a 400.....for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Heck yeah, I wish that I could have seen the race (Smith vs. Evans), but I was not born yet. LOL. Was this when Smith broke the WR for 440 yards? I've looked for it on you-tube, but to no avail!!

That was Smith's WR 440. He was also the first guy to run a sub44.00 relay split indoors. I'm thinking that was just a bragging rights race on that SJS track. Could be wrong. Anyone? Would love to see Smith's 19.5 straight. Hard to believe he started out more a long jumper who could sprint.

Anyway...

We had great track back then and I don't see it any better today. There were a lot more meets here in the states because promotors didn't have to shell out huge amounts of $$$$$. It really has gotten sucky as of late.

Getting back to Smith, he could have anchored both relays to gold if things hadn't gone the way they did, he had that kind of talent. That was never the plan but he could have pulled that off.

[7-sided]

Re: We sprint fans....

This is the nature of the sport, not just sprinting. And, the idea that this is new? Nah. Can you say Coe/Ovett?

Concentrate on the entire sport and you will begin to see the big picture

[Avante]

Re: We sprint fans....

This is the nature of the sport, not just sprinting. And, the idea that this is new? Nah. Can you say Coe/Ovett?

Concentrate on the entire sport and you will begin to see the big picture

I understand that is the nature of the sport, that it what this is about. I'm saying it sucks and wish it wasn't. Yep, it's broke and needs fixing. There is far more dodging/ducking going on now than back in the days of Coe/Ovett.

I will never concentrate on the throws or anything over a mile. Bores the hell out of me.

[26mi235]

Re: We sprint fans....

Not sure that I like some of the reasons that they met a lot -- e.g., the AAU saying You will race Here (and you will not race there unless we say so).

[7-sided]

Re: We sprint fans....

Disagree that there is a lot of ducking going on. There is the case of Gay v Powell and Gay v Bolt - there are no other cases. This is a relatively new phenomenon, brought about by the amount of money shoe companies have thrown at athletes (most money used to circuit money, now it's shoe money; athletes were forced to race in the past, now they're millionaires before stepping on the track [Dix]) ... and it won't last.

Drugs in the sport? You want to attribute that to sprinters? You've obviously not been paying attention...it's everywhere within the sport, but it is getting better - even if at the same time the cheats are becoming more sophisticated.

That said, distance fans have it worse, especially marathon fans.

[26mi235]

Re: We sprint fans....

The times that have gotten laid down in the last several years have made it worse. That is, the strains on the body are very high when you are targeting 9.6 and it makes it much harder to everyone to be healthy at the same time and then to have the arrangements made to go head-to-head.

I am not sure that going head-to-head when one is dinged up, as it does not really tell us who is better, just who is heathly(ier).

[7-sided]

Re: We sprint fans....

The times that have gotten laid down in the last several years have made it worse. That is, the strains on the body are very high when you are targeting 9.6 and it makes it much harder to everyone to be healthy at the same time and then to have the arrangements made to go head-to-head.

I am not sure that going head-to-head when one is dinged up, as it does not really tell us who is better, just who is heathly(ier).

great point; however, the marathoners only compete a few times a year (which the best sprinters have begun to mirror...) and many of the best competitions are within weeks of each other so it is nearly impossible for athletes to go head-to-head.

[Avante]

Re: We sprint fans....

Disagree that there is a lot of ducking going on. There is the case of Gay v Powell and Gay v Bolt - there are no other cases. This is a relatively new phenomenon, brought about by the amount of money shoe companies have thrown at athletes (most money used to circuit money, now it's shoe money; athletes were forced to race in the past, now they're millionaires before stepping on the track [Dix]) ... and it won't last.

Drugs in the sport? You want to attribute that to sprinters? You've obviously not been paying attention...it's everywhere within the sport, but it is getting better - even if at the same time the cheats are becoming more sophisticated.

That said, distance fans have it worse, especially marathon fans.

Just so you know since you keep bringing it up....long time track and field fan. While I'm not a big fan of distance/throws I do know what's going on...ok? I know about the sport not just sprinting. I just prefer to talk sprinting.

Yes ducking at the top, it doesn't matter otherwise. Trell Kimmons won't be ducking anyone...haha!

[Vault-emort]

Re: We sprint fans....

As far as sprinting goes I can't buy that the top guys weren't competing against each other back in the day. Just who were you talking about?

Well I guess I'm not just talking about the two top US male sprinters in 1967/8 as a basis for my argument.

But if we are using that era, how many times did South Africa's Paul Nash ever compete against Hines or Smith? Once?

How many times did Olympic silver medallist Peter Norman ever run against Smith or Carlos? Twice?

Did Wyomia Tyus ever run in Europe?

[Avante]

Re: We sprint fans....

As far as sprinting goes I can't buy that the top guys weren't competing against each other back in the day. Just who were you talking about?

Well I guess I'm not just talking about the two top US male sprinters in 1967/8 as a basis for my argument.

But if we are using that era, how many times did South Africa's Paul Nash ever compete against Hines or Smith? Once?

How many times did Olympic silver medallist Peter Norman ever run against Smith or Carlos? Twice?

Did Wyomia Tyus ever run in Europe?

Obviously back then things were different as far as running over seas goes. Smith and Carlos along with everyone else just college guys and clubbers. What other Americans did Norman face? Same with Paul Nash...? I seriously doubt Tommie Smith needed to duck anyone. If you remember he faced Lee Evans in a 440 right there in San Jose...why? That look like a ducker?

What American female sprinters ran in Europe back then?

It's not going to fly, anyone familiar with the sport knows what we're seeing today.

[Vault-emort]

Re: We sprint fans....

anyone familiar with the sport knows what we're seeing today.

Obviously I have no knowledge of the athletics world (sorry US sprints) in the 60s or today. Hope you enjoy the WCs.