¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

They have only raced against each other three times in an 800m - Barcelona, Gotzis '11, and Daegu (Chernova also front-ran her way to a time that was 3sec quicker than Ennis in Berlin, but they were in different heats). In Barcelona, Chernova knew a medal was out of the question so just did enough to finish. Likewise in Gotzis - the chance of victory and a PB had already gone out the window so again she just jogged it.

But in Beijing when there was a medal on the line, Chernova smashed her PB by 5.5 seconds. Similarly, in Daegu she knew she couldn't just jog around like she normally does and she finished right behind Ennis (by 0.2).

Which is why, if it came down to it, I'd always back Chernova in the hep 800m. If Ennis and Chernova both went into the final event level on points, you can guarantee that Ennis would go off too hard (61sec first lap) while Chernova would sit behind her and eat her up in the closing stages.

But would Jess do that against Chernova ? surely she's use different tactics, i'd love to see them head to head

[26mi235]

Re: ¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

She had WAY more left than Jess; my guess is that even with the sub-optimal pace, taken into account, she would have beaten her if they started 10 points apart.

[Gabriella]

Re: ¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

They have only raced against each other three times in an 800m - Barcelona, Gotzis '11, and Daegu (Chernova also front-ran her way to a time that was 3sec quicker than Ennis in Berlin, but they were in different heats). In Barcelona, Chernova knew a medal was out of the question so just did enough to finish. Likewise in Gotzis - the chance of victory and a PB had already gone out the window so again she just jogged it.

But in Beijing when there was a medal on the line, Chernova smashed her PB by 5.5 seconds. Similarly, in Daegu she knew she couldn't just jog around like she normally does and she finished right behind Ennis (by 0.2).

Which is why, if it came down to it, I'd always back Chernova in the hep 800m. If Ennis and Chernova both went into the final event level on points, you can guarantee that Ennis would go off too hard (61sec first lap) while Chernova would sit behind her and eat her up in the closing stages.

So what you're saying is, Jess has beaten Chernova in every 800m race they've raced together, but you'd always bet on Chernova to beat Jess "if it came down to it"? :? I'm not sure "you can guarantee that Ennis would go off too hard ...while Chernova would sit behind her and eat her up" at all, because this hasn't happened in the 3 races they've had against each other.

You're providing an explanantion for Chernova's poorer races (knew she couldn't medal...she did just enough to finish) whereas you just seem to say Jess races badly because she goes off too hard. But does she? She has done this twice, in Barcelona and Daegu, when she had Dobrynska breathing down her neck and Chernova was way out in front. She had to take the race to them, to take it out hard. She didn't do that in Osaka when she was a medal threat. And if we're talking "ifs" and "buts" what is to say Ennis couldnt have clawed Chernova back in had the Russian overtaken her?

If they went into the final event even, I doubt very much Jess would run out that hard; she's not that silly and her coach would not advise her to do that. It would be a much more tactical affair, and if anything, I think Chernova would have gone out harder as she has the faster PB, whereas I believe Jess would sit on her and try and out kick her in the last 200m because Jess has a faster PB over 100m and 200m.

This is all, of course, speculation. What we do know is that Chernova has a faster PB over 800m than Jess; Jess has never lost over 80m to Chernova...but they both appear to run a particular type of race when they need to.

The most exciting thing for me is we have the Olympics on Jess's home turf next year, and then the World's on Chernova's home turf the year after. It's going to be a great couple of years and hopefully they will bring the best out of each other.

[72]

Re: ¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

What has Margaret Simpson got to do with the point I made about the top all-time heptathletes being of a taller stature than Ennis and its relationship to her javelin throws; Simpson 's best was 6423 and her weirdly good Javelin throws for an athlete of 1.64m are inexplicable; it happens sometimes; the statement " tell that to Margaret Simpson" is irrelevant. JE will need to up her game in the LJ and Javelin to beat Chernova next year,imo.

We can of course await Ennis throwing 50 metres plus , but I for one am not holding my breath.

[Athleticsimaging]

Re: ¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

What has Margaret Simpson got to do with the point I made about the top all-time heptathletes being of a taller stature than Ennis and its relationship to her javelin throws; Simpson 's best was 6423 and her weirdly good Javelin throws for an athlete of 1.64m are inexplicable; it happens sometimes; the statement " tell that to Margaret Simpson" is irrelevant. JE will need to up her game in the LJ and Javelin to beat Chernova next year,imo.

We can of course await Ennis throwing 50 metres plus , but I for one am not holding my breath.

The point is that her height alone is not a guarantee of perpetual javelin incompetence - she is not a dwarf by any means. Simpson's height is not a barrier and neither was Whitbread's nor Sanderson's both, at 1.68 (5'6"), only marginally taller than Ennis. Short arms, lack of strength and poor technique are far more likely culprits for Ennis than height.

The reverse is also true, being closer in size to elite 800m runners than Chernova doesn't mean she is better placed to beat her in that event.

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: wHept—Chernova 6880 [No. 9 ever]

What has Margaret Simpson got to do with the point I made about the top all-time heptathletes being of a taller stature than Ennis and its relationship to her javelin throws; Simpson 's best was 6423 and her weirdly good Javelin throws for an athlete of 1.64m are inexplicable; it happens sometimes; the statement " tell that to Margaret Simpson" is irrelevant. JE will need to up her game in the LJ and Javelin to beat Chernova next year,imo.

We can of course await Ennis throwing 50 metres plus , but I for one am not holding my breath.

It is very easy to understand

You specifically equated stature with ability to throw the javelin. Margaret Simpson is tiny.

:roll: