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  • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

    Originally posted by uakari
    AFAWK (and it's all speculation, but educated speculation, i'd say), she's undergone some sort of cross-gender hormone therapy (just as a transgender athlete would do to qualify). is that not enough for you?
    If this was analogous she would have needed to take two years away from competition (just as a transgender athlete would do to qualify) and her results before that would need to be annulled.

    Comment


    • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

      Originally posted by KevinM
      Originally posted by Dutra
      Simply because some of us don't like Semenya being allowed to compete, doesn't mean we have "something against Semenya". I don't believe a person such as "she" should have been eligible in '09 or now.

      I also don't believe Pistorius should be permitted to participate. That situation could open up a larger can of worms than the Semenya situation.

      Every situation does not require "fair".
      I don't necessarily reject your argument, but the quotes around "she" are not needed and appear a bit crass.
      Not intended to be crass at all.

      Comment


      • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

        except she' s not transgender.

        btw, the bigger scandal for me is what they did to sundarajan.

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        • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

          Originally posted by uakari
          except she' s not transgender.
          But she needs hormone therapy? Wasn't that your scenario?

          Originally posted by uakari
          btw, the bigger scandal for me is what they did to Sundarajan.
          Obviously India did not have the same quality of lawyer that South Africa had available to them. Or was her case significantly different?

          Comment


          • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

            dude, that's not my scenario. these are not my facts, it's what it is. you should know full well, as it's been reported, she was born legally female. she was not someone born legally "male", who then legally transitions into female. as far as she knows, and her family has asserted, she's always been female, and does not identify as TG. this is not my opinion, these are the facts as reported.

            as for poor santhi, the gossip I read was that there were "extra" external parts. but this is a runner who never ran faster than 2:04 IIRC, why did they treat her so poorly? why the indian federation never stood by her, or the iAAF given her a chance to undergo surgery (if she agreed/wanted to), i never understood. last i heard, she had survived a suicide attempt and planned to work with young athletes.

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            • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

              Originally posted by uakari
              you should know full well, as it's been reported, she was born legally female. she's not a someone born legally "male", who then legally transitions into female. as far as she knows, and her family has asserted, she's always been female, and does not identify as TG. this is not my opinion, these are the facts as reported.
              Neither her legal status, nor her self identity, should be relevant to any discussion with respect to the question 'should she be allowed to compete with other women?'. The important factor is does she have a physiological advantage that other women cannot have?

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              • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                you tell her lawyers or the IAAF's. i doubt you'd win it in court.

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                • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                  Originally posted by uakari
                  you tell her lawyers or the IAAF's. i doubt you'd win it in court.
                  This is what I have said all along. She has good lawyers. That is why she is allowed to compete with women but others are not.

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                  • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                    that's too simplistic, marguerite. it's more complex than what you make it sound like.

                    Comment


                    • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                      The more complex the better for lawyers.

                      Another recent, although unrelated, example: Greek sprinters acquitted on appeal

                      Is the truth always the winner in a court of law?

                      Comment


                      • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                        Originally posted by Daisy
                        Tzekos should have his arms crushed. Or am I being too nice? This is the guy who attacked a WADA tester, breaking several of his teeth. But what the hell am I expecting from that barbarian country greece....

                        Comment


                        • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                          Originally posted by uakari
                          that's too simplistic
                          Don't complicate clear-cut, simple issues. CS is physically a man and should not be running with the men. End of.

                          Comment


                          • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                            Originally posted by uakari
                            as for poor santhi, the gossip I read was that there were "extra" external parts. but this is a runner who never ran faster than 2:04 IIRC, why did they treat her so poorly? why the indian federation never stood by her, or the iAAF given her a chance to undergo surgery (if she agreed/wanted to), i never understood.
                            Precisely for that reason. Had she been a 1:56 runner, the Indian federation would definitely have stood behind her.
                            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                            Comment


                            • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                              Originally posted by Powell
                              Originally posted by uakari
                              as for poor santhi, the gossip I read was that there were "extra" external parts. but this is a runner who never ran faster than 2:04 IIRC, why did they treat her so poorly? why the indian federation never stood by her, or the iAAF given her a chance to undergo surgery (if she agreed/wanted to), i never understood.
                              Precisely for that reason. Had she been a 1:56 runner, the Indian federation would definitely have stood behind her.
                              Powell, for being so informed with facts, you seem to have dropped the ball heavily on this one. Have you considered that Soundarajan was from a poor caste, and this was the underlying political reason the government may not have been visibly behind her? Poor woman-child shames India is what the higher-ups were dealing with. Her local state government of Tamil Nadu did back Soundarajan, however, and awarded her a TV set and a cash prize of a little more than $30 000 as a show of support after she'd been stripped of her Doha medal.
                              Fire Impossible.

                              Comment


                              • Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

                                Originally posted by Daisy
                                The more complex the better for lawyers.

                                Another recent, although unrelated, example: Greek sprinters acquitted on appeal

                                Is the truth always the winner in a court of law?
                                well, it depends. are you talking about courts in greece or southern california, or real courts of law?

                                seriously though, there's a little piece of paper issued by a local gov't agency in so. africa some 20 yrs ago. i just think you'd have a hard time proving in court that that piece if paper is wrong or false. it's not simply a matter of having good lawyers.

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