¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

[uakari]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

that's too simplistic

Don't complicate clear-cut, simple issues. CS is physically a man and should not be running with the men. End of.

silly me!!! the oracle of delphi has spoken! or is it moses coming down the mountain??? the truth has come down from the gods!!!!!!

[uakari]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

re: sundarajan,

they took her medal in doha, but i don't think they did the other medals from previous asian champs, which only makes it more bizarre. i think she's still listed in the books for those other medals.

[Daisy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

i just think you'd have a hard time proving in court that that piece if paper is wrong or false.

The piece of paper was issued in good faith but it was based on external phenotype only. So from an athletics perspective it should have no bearing on the case. It will, of course, but is that fair to the other women?

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

Simply because some of us don't like Semenya being allowed to compete, doesn't mean we have "something against Semenya". I don't believe a person such as "she" should have been eligible in '09 or now.

I also don't believe Pistorius should be permitted to participate. That situation could open up a larger can of worms than the Semenya situation.

Every situation does not require "fair".

I don't necessarily reject your argument, but the quotes around "she" are not needed and appear a bit crass.

This ^^

i completley accept others views even if i don't agree but it is this continuous offensive language that pisses me off

[Marlow]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

i completley accept others views even if i don't agree but it is this continuous offensive language that pisses me off

Don't be. I also get both sides:

She's a she (no quote marks) because she thinks herself to be a she, and her external physiology is female (I wanted to put female in quote marks but immediately thought better of it :wink: )

She is a 'she', because her male aspects create an unfair competitive advantage. All the poster was doing was doing was emphasizing that aspect of the argument.

[Dutra]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

Simply because some of us don't like Semenya being allowed to compete, doesn't mean we have "something against Semenya". I don't believe a person such as "she" should have been eligible in '09 or now.

I also don't believe Pistorius should be permitted to participate. That situation could open up a larger can of worms than the Semenya situation.

Every situation does not require "fair".

I don't necessarily reject your argument, but the quotes around "she" are not needed and appear a bit crass.

This ^^

i completley accept others views even if i don't agree but it is this continuous offensive language that pisses me off

I neither intended it to be offensive nor really care if your offended. It's my opinion of which you don't really seem all that "accepting" of by your comment.

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

i completley accept others views even if i don't agree but it is this continuous offensive language that pisses me off

Don't be. I also get both sides:

She's a she (no quote marks) because she thinks herself to be a she, and her external physiology is female (I wanted to put female in quote marks but immediately thought better of it :wink: )

She is a 'she', because her male aspects create an unfair competitive advantage. All the poster was doing was doing was emphasizing that aspect of the argument.

it doesn't need emphasizing there would be no discussion without this aspect, 'she' is only used as a pejorative term, out of bigotry and spite.

Whatever people think of her competing it is completely disrespectful to refer to her in this way

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

Simply because some of us don't like Semenya being allowed to compete, doesn't mean we have "something against Semenya". I don't believe a person such as "she" should have been eligible in '09 or now.

I also don't believe Pistorius should be permitted to participate. That situation could open up a larger can of worms than the Semenya situation.

Every situation does not require "fair".

I don't necessarily reject your argument, but the quotes around "she" are not needed and appear a bit crass.

This ^^

i completley accept others views even if i don't agree but it is this continuous offensive language that pisses me off

I neither intended it to be offensive nor really care if your offended. It's my opinion of which you don't really seem all that "accepting" of by your comment.

it's not an opinion, it's a complete lack of manners

[Marlow]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

'she' is only used as a pejorative term, out of bigotry and spite.

Huh? What bigotry? What spite? In THIS discussion? I fear you see phantoms where none exist here (though I'm sure they do indeed dwell elsewhere).

[Flumpy]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

'she' is only used as a pejorative term, out of bigotry and spite.

Huh? What bigotry? What spite? In THIS discussion?

Seriously???

This whole discussion is full of bigotry and spite.

[kuha]

Re: ¶2011 WC: w800—Savinova catches Semenya

That's just nonsense. There is some heated emotion here, on both sides, but to go into "bigotry" territory is to take the discussion completely into the swamp.

As for the "she"/"he" thing, the truth is that these either/or terms are not really relevant here, given the mixed/in-betweenness that we're talking about. From a social standpoint, "she" is completely appropriate; from a medical/biological standpoint it is not. And that marks the divide here: those attempting to address this from a medical/biological standpoint and the others motivated by social/human rights concerns. It is my position that, in this case, only the former has any genuine meaning. All recourse to the latter is simply an attempt to change the subject.

But, really, all this has been stated many times. Some read and process these ideas; others ignore them.