Pronunciation of Russian names

[Dilan Esper]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

I should clarify that you will hear me pronounce many names "incorrectly" in the context of either an intro or (particularly), during a Victory Ceremony.

And that's in all languages, as the modern school of bombastic credentials (thank you Michael Buffer) pretty much demands clear separation of all syllables, with all getting major stress.

(or, thank you Andrés Cantor, for inspiring YOU-SAIN BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLT!)

Actually, the boxing guys did this long before Buffer. Somewhere on youtube there's a fight of Sugar Ramos fought in newly-opened Dodger Stadium in the early 1960's, and Jimmy Lennon Sr. (the greatest fight announcer of his era) stretched out the name pretty good.

But I'd say this style was POPULARIZED by NBA announcers, especially Ray Clay of the Chicago Bulls in the 1990's. When the Bulls started winning championships, suddenly the announcing in many different sports shifted to this style. (I'm trying to imagine Stan Eales or Dick Nash or my father doing an introduction this way, but I can't. )

[Grazerism]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Alan, if you'd like to listen to Chicherova's name pronounced in Russian, click below (near the 27s mark): http://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta/lig ... ishoy-pobe

Watch the whole video, and you hear not only "CHEE-cheh-ro-va" but also "Kuh-sta-DEE-nuh-va" and "BLAHNK-ah VLAH-zhitch".

Plus a lot of great HJ clips...

[gh]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Of course, when you're listening to an "X" announcer on TV, don't trust them beyond their own language.

"VLAH-zhitch" is actually VLAH-sheech.

[Alan Shank]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Of course, when you're listening to an "X" announcer on TV, don't trust them beyond their own language.

"VLAH-zhitch" is actually VLAH-sheech.

Are you sure? In Slavic languages, the is a 'sh', a 'ch' and a 'ts'. In Cyrillic, these are: ? ? ?

In Slavic languages that use the Latin alphabet, they put a "hachek" over 's' for 'sh', a hachek over 'c' for ch and 'c' by itself is 'ts', I believe, although this may not be the same in West Slavic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, etc.) AND South Slavic (Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, etc.). (I took a quarter of Czech and a quarter of Serbo-Croatian at graduate school at UCLA, but that was in 1968 or so, so...)

Vlasic' name as it appears in results has the hachek over the 's', but not over the 'c', which leads me to believe that it should be pronounced "vlashits", not "vlashich", but I'm not sure.

Whoops! It occurred to me to go to a Russian Website and see how they spell her name in Cyrillic, and they end it with a "ch", so I guess Garry is right.

OK, so now I visited a "Croatian for Travellers" Website, and I see that they use 'c' for 'ts', 'c' with a "hachek" for 'ch' but c with a little ` over it for a slightly different version of 'ch', so I think her name should actually be spelled with the '`' over the 'c' .

And, sure enough, here is how her name appears on the Croatian Athletic Federation's Website:

Blanka Vlaši?

BTW, Dwight Stones pronounced "chi-cher-O-va", Garry "chi-CHER-o-va" and "CHI-cher-av-a" is correct. Anybody for "chi-cher-o-VA"???? >:-)

This is fun, no? BTW, the letter 'j' is used differently in different language groups. In Slavic, it represents "yod", like our 'Y' in "yes" or "boy". So Hejnova is hey-NO-va (long 'a'), not hezh-NO-va, as Paul Sunderland (I think) pronounced it. In other languages it can be like 'j' in "Jack" or like 'h' in "Hell" or like 's' in "pleasure". What a mess!
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

[gh]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

All that just to say I was right. Was never a doubt in my mind :-)

One problem you need to be aware of: for whatever reason, many/most computer systems have problems with the ? character. The diacritical is frequently absent just becuase it can't be done.

[uakari]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

slavic names are so annoying. why can't they have easy to pronounce names like Ranavaloniriainitravomalana?

[Pego]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

In Slavic languages that use the Latin alphabet, they put a "hachek" over 's' for 'sh', a hachek over 'c' for ch and 'c' by itself is 'ts', I believe, although this may not be the same in West Slavic (Polish, Czech, Slovak, etc.) AND South Slavic (Serbo-Croatian, Bulgarian, Macedonian, etc.).

This is correct. The problem is that while the Slavic languages share a lot, they also differ a lot, not only in vocabulary and grammar, but also in diacritic. Even languages with quite similar vocabulary as Czech and Slovak have fairly substantial differences in accents and grammar. When it comes to accents, even dialects of Slovak are so different that people from the far western and far eastern regions have difficulty understanding each other (a mere 200 miles apart). The best way of a foreign speaker to learn how to pronounce those names is to ask a native speaker.

The two Slovak recent track stars are hra-shno-VAH (h is not silent) and klo-tzo-VAH, the commonly mispronounced Czech is hey-no-VAH.

[gh]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

....
BTW, Dwight Stones pronounced "chi-cher-O-va", Garry "chi-CHER-o-va" and "CHI-cher-av-a" is correct. ....

Actually, we don't know for sure that the Russian TV guy got it right with CHI-cher-av-a. Is he any better than his English-speaking counterparts?

For all we know, even as we speak, on a Russian track board, some guy may be typing, "that idiot Boris Badenov, he can't even pronounce Chicherova's name right!"

[andyjgt]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Pego, are you highlighting long syllables, or stressed ones? I know they are spelt with an acute accent on the final a, but I believe this 'merely' makes the sound long, is the primary stress not on the first syllable of every word in both Czech and Slovak? How would you say Rosolova? And indeed Spotakova, with acute accents on both a's?

[Dilan Esper]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Actually, the one I will never forget is Natalie Kaaiawahia at the Arcadia Invitational. My father mispronounced her name on the PA two years in a row based on bad information from her coach. (It turned out to be something like KAYA-va-hee-ya.)

And she set a national interscholastic record!

PS: You can hear the PA announcer pronounce it correctly in this amazing clip (plus a reference to a high school long jumper who went on to bigger and better things as well):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8o4yBX4s8p8

[Pego]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Pego, are you highlighting long syllables, or stressed ones? I know they are spelt with an acute accent on the final a, but I believe this 'merely' makes the sound long, is the primary stress not on the first syllable of every word in both Czech and Slovak? How would you say Rosolova? And indeed Spotakova, with acute accents on both a's?

Rosolová has an accent (long ?) only on the "a", in Špotáková both á's are long (accented). I am not sure, I understand a difference between long and stressed syllables. Teach me.

[Deuce]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Whoops! It occurred to me to go to a Russian Website and see how they spell her name in Cyrillic, and they end it with a "ch", so I guess Garry is right.

Garry is right.

OK, so now I visited a "Croatian for Travellers" Website, and I see that they use 'c' for 'ts', 'c' with a "hachek" for 'ch' but c with a little ` over it for a slightly different version of 'ch', so I think her name should actually be spelled with the '`' over the 'c' .

And, sure enough, here is how her name appears on the Croatian Athletic Federation's Website:
Blanka Vlaši?

Blanka Vlaši? it is.
Difference between (pronounciationing) "?" and "?" are very light ("?" should be softer), and if you're not from this part of the world, it will be almost impossible to you to hear the difference. Well, to be honest, many of native Croatians, Serbs, Bosnians etc. also are not sure for many words is it right to write it with "?" or "?", and in some Croatian regions (Dalmatia, Istria) people don't care at all about the difference, in their idioms there is only "?" or "?".

[Grazerism]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

My opera world presents myriad opportunities for bloopers. In Europe, the general director often introduces all the artists at the opening night party. Graz's somewhat elderly GD had a track record of name-mangling. After the MADAMA BUTTERFLY premiere, he was to introduce Karine Babajanyan, who sang the title role (actually Cio-Cio San, pronounced "cho-cho sahn"). We held our breath. And he pronounced Karine's name perfectly! (Collective sigh of relief)..."as Ko-Ko San."

[Alan Shank]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Pego, are you highlighting long syllables, or stressed ones? I know they are spelt with an acute accent on the final a, but I believe this 'merely' makes the sound long, is the primary stress not on the first syllable of every word in both Czech and Slovak? How would you say Rosolova? And indeed Spotakova, with acute accents on both a's?

Rosolová has an accent (long ?) only on the "a", in Špotáková both á's are long (accented). I am not sure, I understand a difference between long and stressed syllables. Teach me.

My vague recollection from taking a quarter of Czech back in 1968 is that in the "ova" ending the 'a' is long, not stressed. There is a definite difference. "Long" just means the sound lasts longer in time. I can't remember whether the stress rule in Czech is first syllable or penultimate syllable, but it's independent from "long" vowels.

Still no response from [email protected], of course.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

[Pego]

Re: Pronunciation of Russian names

Pego, are you highlighting long syllables, or stressed ones? I know they are spelt with an acute accent on the final a, but I believe this 'merely' makes the sound long, is the primary stress not on the first syllable of every word in both Czech and Slovak? How would you say Rosolova? And indeed Spotakova, with acute accents on both a's?

Rosolová has an accent (long ?) only on the "a", in Špotáková both á's are long (accented). I am not sure, I understand a difference between long and stressed syllables. Teach me.

My vague recollection from taking a quarter of Czech back in 1968 is that in the "ova" ending the 'a' is long, not stressed. There is a definite difference. "Long" just means the sound lasts longer in time. I can't remember whether the stress rule in Czech is first syllable or penultimate syllable, but it's independent from "long" vowels.

Still no response from [email protected], of course.
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

I get it now. In both above names the stress would be on the first syllable. I cannot give you a rule, for native speakers those things come naturally, so I don't even know, if there is a strict rule :wink: .