writers/announcers and....

[Avante]

.....football/sprinting.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime I've heard some football announcer..."he has world class speed"....talking about a fast footballer who doesn't have .."world class speed." Marquiz Goodwin does not have WCS, and nether did Rocket Ismail, Bo Jackson, Randy Moss etc etc.

Last night it was a football game, Hampton vs Bethune Cookman. Hampton has Reggie Dixon a good college sprinter. He however is not..."the second fastest guy in America"...he did not..."took second at the NCAA's"... :roll: Where do they get that? They think nobody really knows any better?

I'm reading about Ollie Matson in a book I have about running backs, it mentions his Oly bronze in the 400 and his Oly gold in the 4x4....huh? They mention that...nope!...twice. Hmmm.. :roll:

On the back of one of his football cards they talk about Homer Jones beating the Russians in a dual meet. When did that happen? Yep, somebody got him mixed up with Hayes (who he did beat in a NAIA 200 once).

In a recent Herschel Walker piece on TV, they try to give the impression he was right there with Carl Lewis, Stanley Floyd, Calvin Smith....nope! While at Georgia he made one NCAA 100m final and took 6th/7th??? Sure, for a 220 pounder..fast, that's it however. Now Curtis Dickey was the real deal.

There was a football game a couple years ago, forgot between who..."he has amazing speed, a 10.8 in high school"....huh? A 10.8=amazing speed..?


There is a NFL Films..."Fastest NFL Players Ever"...out there. They got a few right....Bob Hayes, Ron Brown, Darrel Green, Willie Gault. Then there's...Deion Sanders? Devin Hester? Bo Jackson? Randy Moss? None of those guys could run with James Jett, James Trapp, Curtis Dickey, Sam Graddy, Johnny Jones, Alvis Whitted....who didn't make the cut.

More than once I've read where Otis Davis (60 Oly 400m gold) never ran track while at Oregon, he played basketball. Then I come across him in the finals of the NCAA 400m...????

It would be nice if these guys actually took some time and boned up on this stuff.

[Marlow]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Then there's...Deion Sanders? Bo Jackson? None of those guys could run with James Jett, James Trapp, Curtis Dickey, Sam Graddy, Johnny Jones, Alvis Whitted....who didn't make the cut.

You MUST be joking. Deion and Bo can't hang with Jett, Trapp and Whitted?

Put those guys, at the top of their game, on a football field and race them 40, 50, 60 yards (game relevant). Deion and Bo do just fine, thank you. I'm not talking on Mondo in spikes; I'm talking in cleats, on the field. Shame on you, Avante!

[Avante]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Then there's...Deion Sanders? Bo Jackson? None of those guys could run with James Jett, James Trapp, Curtis Dickey, Sam Graddy, Johnny Jones, Alvis Whitted....who didn't make the cut.

You MUST be joking. Deion and Bo can't hang with Jett, Trapp and Whitted?

Put those guys, at the top of their game, on a football field and race them 40, 50, 60 yards (game relevant). Deion and Bo do just fine, thank you. I'm not talking on Mondo in spikes; I'm talking in cleats, on the field. Shame on you, Avante!

We can't play..."boy, he sure does look fast on a football field"...we have to talk....facts! Deion was a 10.26 guy, Jett, Trapp and Whitted all ran in that 10.07-10.16 world. They were "world class" sprinters something 10.26 Deion wasn't, something 10.3-ish Bo Jackson wasn't. This isn't about..."boy, he sure could motor on a football field"...this is about what was actually accomplished when it came to speed. I've never seen a faster..."footballer"..than Rocket Ismail while at ND. Nobody ever ran faster in a football game. Rocket was no..."world class sprinter"...he was a guy who had that ability to run at near full speed while making cuts, he had an amazing burst. That is not to be confused with..."world class speed".

We will never read/hear about Sam Graddy when it comes to those fast footballers. Graddy an Olympic silver medalist with a sub 10.10 is not one of the fastest footballers ever? If we go by 100m times, the fastest footballer ever was.....9.91 Leonard Scott while at Tennessee. Right now the fastest NFLer is not DeSeun Jackson, Jamaal Charles or Chris Johnson it is Jacoby Ford with the Raiders (who have had more speedsters than most countries) yes there is also Trindon Holliday but is he still playing?

Devin Hester's highlight (Miami/Bears) video has him looking like an alen from another planet. Yep..Bolt-ish. He was a 10.3/10.4 guy. Yet, with a football in his hands...zoooooooommmmmmm!!!!!!!!!

1959

Eddie Southern University of Texas at Austin 46.4 10
Chuck Carlson University of Colorado, Boulder 46.5 8
Terry Tobacco University of Washington 46.6 6
Malcolm Spence Arizona State University 46.8 4
Walter Johnson North Carolina Central University 47.2 2
DeLoss Dodds Kansas State University 47.3 1
Otis Davis University of Oregon
Melvin Barnwell University of Pittsburgh

[Giant Panda]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Herschel Walker came 5th in the 100m at US Nationals in 1982 (when he was a 20 year old sophomore).

[Avante]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Herschel Walker came 5th in the 100m at US Nationals in 1982.

1982

1. Carl Lewis 10.11
2. Calvin Smith 10.16
3. Mike Miller 10.32
4. Leandro Penalver (CUB) 10.36
5. Herschel Walker 10.38
6. Darwin Cook 10.44

I wouldn't call that running with the big boys. Way off dealing with Lewis and Smith.

Only NCAA finals, 1981.


Carl Lewis University of Houston 9.99 2.54w
Jeffrey Phillips University of Tennessee, Knoxville 10.00
Mel Lattany University of Georgia 10.06
Eric Brown University of California, Los Angeles 10.20
Ron Brown Arizona State University 10.24
Calvin Smith University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa 10.24
Hershell Walker University of Georgia 10.30
Peter Okodogbe University of Arizona 10.41
Larry White Mississippi Valley State University 10.57

Don't get me wrong, he was one of the fastest big guys and running backs. He was not however a "world class" sprinter. Now if he'd got into sprinting instead of football...hmmm?

[Marlow]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Avante, you're mixing species. The ability to run sub-10.20, something even McTear struggled to do, is defined by the training in speed endurance. The distance from 60m to 100m is all post-acceleration, aka is NOT raw speed-related, per se. McTear may have been one of the greatest natural talents on the PLANET, but he could not attain speed endurance to go with his blinding acceleration. 100m time is NOT the be-all, end-all of defining speed. Actual top-end SPEED is actually narrowly identified as the split from 50m to 60m. Bolt's was .81. No one else close (that we know of).

[Daisy]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Actual top-end SPEED is actually narrowly identified as the split from 50m to 60m.

We know that they all top out between 50-60?

[Giant Panda]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Carl Lewis University of Houston 9.99 2.54w
Jeffrey Phillips University of Tennessee, Knoxville 10.00
Mel Lattany University of Georgia 10.06
Eric Brown University of California, Los Angeles 10.20
Ron Brown Arizona State University 10.24
Calvin Smith University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa 10.24
Hershell Walker University of Georgia 10.30
Peter Okodogbe University of Arizona 10.41
Larry White Mississippi Valley State University 10.57

Don't get me wrong, he was one of the fastest big guys and running backs. He was not however a "world class" sprinter. Now if he'd got into sprinting instead of football...hmmm?

What leaps out at me from that list is a nineteen year old freshman (Walker) running 0.06 behind a pair of athletes a year ahead of him (Brown and Smith) who within three years would place fourth in an Olympic 100m final (Brown) and break the world record (Smith). It's definitely impressive compared to most football stars. Walker was in the USFL by 1983.

[Marlow]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Actual top-end SPEED is actually narrowly identified as the split from 50m to 60m.

We know that they all top out between 50-60?

In all the "10m split analyses" we've seen, that's where the vast majority peak. Some peak at 50m; some actually hold the peak to almost 90m!

[Giant Panda]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Somebody needs to check the neutrino readings for that track on Lake Geneva.

[Avante]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Avante, you're mixing species. The ability to run sub-10.20, something even McTear struggled to do, is defined by the training in speed endurance. The distance from 60m to 100m is all post-acceleration, aka is NOT raw speed-related, per se. McTear may have been one of the greatest natural talents on the PLANET, but he could not attain speed endurance to go with his blinding acceleration. 100m time is NOT the be-all, end-all of defining speed. Actual top-end SPEED is actually narrowly identified as the split from 50m to 60m. Bolt's was .81. No one else close (that we know of).

You cannot take guys like Joey Galloway, Tony Dorsett, Eric Dickerson, Devin Hester, Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders who did little/anything as far as track & football goes and say they are faster than Olympic sprinters/footballers...Johnny Jones, Gerald Tinker, Michael Bates, Ron Brown, Sam Graddy, James Jett, Larry Burton, Bob Hayes. They also can't be compared to guys who did make a mark as tracksters like...Darrell Green, Alvis Whitted, James Trapp, Willie Gault, Curtis Dickey. All those mentioned "proved the speed". Guys like Rocket Ismail, Bo Jackson....no not really. Other than looking the part. They lacked...speed credentials.

Anytime this topic is talked about the fact Bob Hayes was an Olympic 100m Champ/WR holder will be mentioned. Darrel Green will have his 10.08 talked about. The fact Willie Gault was a world class hurdler/sprinter will be mentioned. That's how it is and should be. To..."forget track it's obvious the guy can fly".....nay! That's like..."he sure is strong and packs a punch"...then..."ever knock anyone out?"...which gets a..."no, but........."

McTear was one of the fastest guys in the world in his day. A 100yd WR holder as a HS junior. He broke how many indoor records? His 10.13 was the fastest time ran in the USA back then. As a footballer at Baker High (Florida) he averaged over 13 yards a carry. Unlike Randy Moss, Joey Galloway he had...speed credentials. It wasn't..."forget the 100, we can see he's fast..."

Once saw McTear come from wayyyyyyyyyyyyy back on the anchor leg of a JC 4x2 while at Cerritos. He had speed endurance he just preferred the shorter stuff.

1977

1 Houston McTear USA 10.13
1 Steve Williams USA 10.13
3 Harvey Glance USA 10.16
4 Clancy Edwards USA 10.18
5 Cliff Wiley USA 10.21
6 Johnny Williams USA 10.22
6 Joel Andrews USA 10.22
8 Michael Kee USA 10.27
9 Edward Preston USA 10.30
9 Derald Harris USA 10.30

[Avante]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Carl Lewis University of Houston 9.99 2.54w
Jeffrey Phillips University of Tennessee, Knoxville 10.00
Mel Lattany University of Georgia 10.06
Eric Brown University of California, Los Angeles 10.20
Ron Brown Arizona State University 10.24
Calvin Smith University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa 10.24
Hershell Walker University of Georgia 10.30
Peter Okodogbe University of Arizona 10.41
Larry White Mississippi Valley State University 10.57

Don't get me wrong, he was one of the fastest big guys and running backs. He was not however a "world class" sprinter. Now if he'd got into sprinting......

What leaps out at me from that list is a nineteen year old freshman (Walker) running 0.06 behind a pair of athletes a year ahead of him (Brown and Smith) who within three years would place fourth in an Olympic 100m final (Brown) and break the world record (Smith). It's definitely impressive compared to most football stars. Walker was in the USFL by 1983.

I agree he had speed, just not world class speed. Ron Brown another footballer...world class. To run a 10.23 in the early 80's....nay! Great for a big guy, a running back.

[az2004]

Re: writers/announcers and....

i saw herscel run indoor his freshman year in philadelphia.

don't recollect his time, but i suspect football quickly became his meal ticket..

as to annoucers NOT knowing next to nothing, it's painful to listen to tom hammond

[KDFINE]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Actually Avante, Homer Jones did "beat" the Russians in a dual meet. He ran the third leg on the 4 x 100 relay in the 1962 dual meet. I think the other three runners were Hayes Jones, Roger Sayers, on of course, Bob Hayes on anchor.

[Avante]

Re: writers/announcers and....

Actually Avante, Homer Jones did "beat" the Russians in a dual meet. He ran the third leg on the 4 x 100 relay in the 1962 dual meet. I think the other three runners were Hayes Jones, Roger Sayers, on of course, Bob Hayes on anchor.

Homer Jones, the originator of ...The Spike. One of the few to beat Bob Hayes.

Funny how Hayes always gets the..."he changed the way pass defense was played"...hell, nobody could run with Jones either.

Trust me they weren't talking about a leg on the 4x1.

Look at that relay team...

Jones...Eastern Michigan
H.Jones...Texas Southern
Sayers...U of Omaha
Hayes...FAMU