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  • #31
    Re: Walter Dix enters U.S. Olympic trials

    http://www.usatf.org/events/2004/Olympi ... ndards.asp

    Qualifying Guidelines

    1. All qualifying performances for running events must be made on a standard outdoor track or during the 2004 indoor season on an indoor track in the same event; qualifying performances for walking events must be made on a USATF-certified road course, standard outdoor track, or an international road course certified by the appropriate authority.

    2. Qualifying marks must be made and verifiable in one of the following:
    a. USATF- or IAAF-sanctioned events,
    b. collegiate meets where events prescribe to or exceed USATF competition rules, or
    c. high school meets, except duals and triangulars.

    3. All qualifying performances are subject to verification.

    4. Fully automatic timing (F.A.T.) is the only method of timing acceptable for qualifying marks for events equal to or shorter than 400 meters.

    5. A manual time may only be used for qualifying for events of 800 meters and longer. No timing allowance factor for qualifying will be made for hand times. Hand times will be adjusted using Rule 76 for the purposes of seeding.

    6. Wind-assisted performances will not be accepted. There is no adjustment for altitude.

    7. An appeal to use a mile qualifying mark for the 1500m will be accepted only if a) no 1500m qualifying mark exists, b) the mile mark was made during the 2004 season, and c) the mile mark is equivalent to the 1500m "A" standard, 3:54.40 for men and 4:28.20 for women.

    8. All qualifying marks must be attained between January 1, 2003 and July 1, 2004.


    The above qualifying guidelines clearly state that the qualifying period is 1/1/03-7/1/04. The 7/1/03 date is not mentioned, as it has no bearing on qualifying and is only used for seeding purposes once the fields have been set.

    Also note that the field size of 30 in the 200 is only an approximate number and not a minimum.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Walter Dix enters U.S. Olympic trials

      Here is my point, and please try to be understanding here, we are reading the same thing.

      From http://www.usatf.org/events/2004/Olympi ... ndards.asp

      US Trials Procedure

      "A" and "B" Standards

      "A" - athletes who attain the "A" standard will automatically be included in the event. *
      "B" - athletes who attain the "B" standard will be included in the event only if additional competitors are needed to fill the stated field size (i.e., not enough athletes have attained the "A" standard). *

      * - subject to the Qualifying Guidelines, entry process, and declaration process. If the "B" standard is used, only the number of athletes needed to fill the stated field size will be included in the event. These athletes must declare, and they will be invited for inclusion only after the close of declarations.

      Field sizes are the approximate number of desired participants in each event (not the minimum). See the field sizes page for a list of the progression of field sizes for each event.


      And from http://www.usatf.org/events/2004/Olympi ... dSizes.asp

      Seeding Guidelines

      1. The mark used for qualifying and the mark used for first round seeding might not be the same.

      2. Each qualified entrant in each event must submit a best mark, if available, from the period 7/1/03 - 7/1/04, whether it meets the qualifying standard or not.

      3. Seeding for the first round of competition is based on marks achieved between 7/1/03 - 7/1/04, which will be ranked before any performances made prior to 7/1/03, even if they do not meet the qualifying standard (Rule 75). Marks made prior to 7/1/03 may qualify an individual for the competition, but will not be used for seeding purposes when a 7/1/03 - 7/1/04 mark exists.


      So here is my point.

      Only those who have achieved "A" performances and those who qualify under the special qualifying regulations are guaranteed a spot in the trials. For seeding purposes only those best marks from 7/1/2003-7/1/2004 will be used, unless only a mark which at least meets the "B" standard is available before those dates, but not before 1/1/2003.

      The guidelines state that the mark used for qualifying might not be the same as the mark used for seeding, but nowhere do the guidelines state that the top marks from 1/1/2003-7/1/2004 will be used to complete the field. Since it is unlikely that enough "A" marks will be attained to fill the field, then provisional qualifiers will fill the rest of the slots.

      Nothing says that the decision on who participates will be solely based on best times from 1/1/2003 through 7/1/2004. That period is only the time frame for achieving an automatic or provisional mark.

      Nothing says that seeding will not be used to determine who is in and out of the field. It is not explicitly stated either way.

      Since "B" times are not guaranteed participation, I see no reason whatsoever to assume that the seeding order will not be used to find the desired cutoff point among those who have not achieved "A" marks.

      But bear in mind that I haven't looked into this issue before now, so it may be an unwritten rule somewhere about who gets picked.

      Let's say someone achieved a 20.40 time in April of 2003, but since last July has not had a mark better that 21.10. If the committee is seeding on the basis of the later marks, why would they use the ealier mark when it had not been validated by more recent results? Why pick someone for the field based upon their best mark, then seed the field based upon a smaller set of more recent marks? What would be the point of that?

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Walter Dix enters U.S. Olympic trials

        >>the guidelines state that the top marks from 1/1/2003-7/1/2004 will be used to complete the field. Since it is unlikely that enough "A" marks will be attained to fill the field, then provisional qualifiers will fill the rest of the slots.<<

        I'll try once again. The above paragraph, which you quoted, says it all. The top marks from the entire qualifying period are used to complete the field.


        >>Nothing says that seeding will not be used to determine who is in and out of the field. It is not explicitly stated either way.<<

        Nothing except the ordinary meaning of the word "seeding" and normal seeding procedures. You seed only the athletes who are in the meet. You don't determine who is in the meet by the seeding rules--you determine who is in the meet by the qualifying rules. Once you've determined who is in the meet, you then and only then apply the seeding rules. This is all widely understood.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Walter Dix enters U.S. Olympic trials

          I tend to agree, tandfman.

          It would have been clearer if they had explicitly said that best marks from all entries from 1/1/2003 through 7/1/2004 would be used to determine the field. Because the seeding times may be different from qualification times, it tends to make one think that more recent results could make or break an entry.

          Were split periods used to adjust seeding times in 2000? No confusion at all would exist if the dates used for seeding matched the dates used for qualification.

          Comment

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