Different styles of tracks

[dbirds]

Has anyone ever compiled or seen a listing of all the different tracks and when they were commonly used i.e. dirt, cinder, Mondo, etc

Even better would be any solid estimates on the speed of different surfaces.

[Marlow]

Re: Different styles of tracks

Even better would be any solid estimates on the speed of different surfaces.

Hyper-fast: Tokyo 91, Atlanta 96, Berlin 07, Beijing 08. [actually any Mondo (or equivalent) new(er) track at the major sites].
Ultra-slow: old(er) 'rubberized' tracks, which are good for distance types, but no so much for sprinting.

It would be way cool if tracks were rated on a 10.00-normed scale in which the 10.00 track would be 'average' and 9.50 would be ones where WRs could 'easily' be set (assuming Bolt is running there and in top form) and 10.50 ones would be something like grass. If it were a 10.20 track and a guy ran 10.10, we knew it was a 9.90 basic-basic!

[kuha]

Re: Different styles of tracks

I don't understand the term "dirt." Do you mean, literally, a horse track?

I fully understand grass, clay/composite, cinder, and so on.

What, exactly, does "dirt" signify and where are these tracks?

[gh]

Re: Different styles of tracks

Has anyone ever compiled or seen a listing of all the different tracks and when they were commonly used i.e. dirt, cinder, Mondo, etc

Even better would be any solid estimates on the speed of different surfaces.

Solid estimate?! There isn't even a loose estimate possible.

The "dirt" tracks in California's central valley (think Modesto, Fresno, etc., from the glory days of their big meets) baked in the sun and were treated with loving care by professional groundskeepers. Compare that with some "dirt" tracks I ran on back in the day where years of rain had leached away most of the binding material, leaving just loose cinders, and the difference for a 100 was probably something like 0.4.

[kuha]

Re: Different styles of tracks

The "dirt" tracks in California's central valley (think Modesto, Fresno, etc., from the glory days of their big meets) baked in the sun and were treated with loving care by professional groundskeepers. Compare that with some "dirt" tracks I ran on back in the day where years of rain had leached away most of the binding material, leaving just loose cinders, and the difference for a 100 was probably something like 0.4.

You wisely put "dirt" in quotes, acknowledging (I presume) the hopelessness of this term. As soon as anyone starts talking about "loving care," "binding materials," and "loose cinders" it's obvious we are not talking about a soil--bare ground--running surface. It's something else--some sort of clay/cinder/sand(?) composite--but definitely a composite, not DIRT.

[gh]

Re: Different styles of tracks

I've run on no end of high school tracks that appear to be nothing but the local topsoil, so dirt (sans quotes) tracks I think did/do exist. But yes, in the era of "real" tracks that weren't' synthetic, they were a composite of some kind.

[kuha]

Re: Different styles of tracks

I've run on no end of high school tracks that appear to be nothing but the local topsoil, so dirt (sans quotes) tracks I think did/do exist. But yes, in the era of "real" tracks that weren't' synthetic, they were a composite of some kind.

And I, too, have run on at least one true dirt--topsoil--surface...in 1968. I've also run on a traprock surface (yes, truly). It's simply good to reinforce the fact that the term "dirt" has nothing to do with any major track surface after (at least) 1920 or so.

[Bruce Kritzler]

Re: Different styles of tracks

A description of a good "dirt" track would be similar to a manicured dirt infield of a baseball field. It would be a mixture of dirt and clay, and the quality of the surface would vary from major league diamonds to local playgrounds.
Another version of the "natural" surface was the "red dog" track, mixture of red brick cinders, clay, etc.

[lonewolf]

Re: Different styles of tracks

Dirt seems self-explanatory. The preponderance of tracks in my youth were just that: raw, untreated, un-compacted, native soil.. the county road grader just scraped off a bare track each spring..track got a little smaller each year.. lanes marked by spikes driven through a 2x12 pulled behind a tractor..

[gh]

Re: Different styles of tracks

....
And I, too, have run on at least one true dirt--topsoil--surface...in 1968. I've also run on a traprock surface (yes, truly). ...

I obviously didn't pay enough attention in geology class: I have no recollection of ever having heard the word "traprock" before.

[kuha]

Re: Different styles of tracks

And my spelling is wonky: trap rock. From Wiki (last sentence is relevant):

Trap rock is a form of igneous rock that tends to form polygonal vertical fractures, most typically hexagonal, but also four to eight sided. The fracture pattern forms when magma of suitable chemical composition (typically basaltic) intrudes as a sill or extrudes as a thick lava flow, and slowly cools.
Trap rock is commercially quarried and crushed to provide hard bulk in composite materials that bond it together, such as concrete and macadam.

[gh]

Re: Different styles of tracks

Also relevant to the "speed" of tracks is modern shoe technology. The goal of both the track and shoe makers is to come up with a combination that provides maximal traction while at the same time keeping friction to a minimum (if I might throw scientific terms around in a rather unscientific fashion).

Bottom line being that you don't want the shoe to slip in any fashion, but at the same time you don't want to eat energy in having to extract the spike from the substrate.

This was an obvious lesson physics that became apparent if you ever tried to run on a wooden track with 3/8" spikes! But modern technology goes beyond just spike length.

[Fortius19]

Re: Different styles of tracks

What's up with grass tracks?

I hear them referrenced to New Zealand, but not anywhere else I can think of right now. Why don't they just run on dirt?

Wouldn't you just run the grass into oblivion in a few months?

Were/are grass tracks just run on for meets and not practice?

Any input would be welcome as we are looking to make a dirt (or grass) track for a local club.

Grass sounds nice and soft and pretty, but we would have no idea on upkeep.

[Conor Dary]

Re: Different styles of tracks

Snell ran 1:44.3 on a grass track 50 years ago.

[kuha]

Re: Different styles of tracks

What's up with grass tracks?

What's up with Wimbledon? Real grass tracks were beautiful things--carefully tended, used very sparingly, and thus always in generally superb shape. It's my sense that the great grass tracks in NZ were used for major meets only--not at all for general training or joggers. For distance running at least, they would have been great.