Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Pac 10 women's 10k?

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Pac 10 women's 10k?

    What happened at the Pac 10 women's 10k? Alicia Craig wins in 36' by a large margin, and the rest of the field, which has some talent, is spread all over kingdom come. In contrast, the men ran what looked like a very tight race with 8 under 31' and Cheseret winning on a fast finish in 30:24. Daytime high in Tucson was only 93, with a low of 57, so temp should not have been a major factor at 9:30 at night. Any insights?

  • #2
    Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

    Are you sure the low was 57? When it is is 93 degrees in Arizona the low is usually in the high 70's or low 80's. I think it was the heat...probably no one wanted to set any kind of a decent pace...plus some run O.K. in heat, but most run mediocre to poorly in a race as long as 10,000m.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

      Often overlooked is the fact that Tucson sits at 2421ft (738m) of altitude. Not exactly conducive to fast 10Ks.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

        A check of the National Weather Service records does reveal lows 56-58 with a high of 93 in mid afternoon. Having live in both Phoenix and Tucson I can attest to a greater temperature variation in Tucson.
        I would speculate that the temperature was a primary consideration for most of the long distance competitors.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

          >Often overlooked is the fact that Tucson sits at 2421ft (738m) of altitude. Not
          >exactly conducive to fast 10Ks.

          As I asked originally, why were the women so much slower than the men relatively speaking, and much more dispersed? What was happening in that particular race? Was anyone there who saw it? The men probably ran a minute or less slower than their potentials, while the women clearly were 4 minutes slower or more. Why wasn't there a bunch of women at 37' instead of spread out to 39'?

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

            Tactics.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

              >Tactics.

              Tactics don't bring scorers in around 38 minutes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                >>Tactics.

                Tactics don't bring scorers in around 38 minutes.>

                If the tactic was to run not too fast it's perfect.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                  >Tactics don't bring scorers in around 38 minutes.

                  You have not tried racing with the leaders at a significantly increased altitude (most of those women train along the coast) in temps which were probably in the low 80s (memo to the weather stats greenhorns: the daily low occurs near daybreak and a quick glance at the recent stats for Tuscon show temps in the low 80s around 10 p.m. when the high has been in the 90s and the low has been in the 50s) in a distance race at a championship meet, have you? If you had then you might have realized that going out too hard to maintain contact in that scenario would dramatically affect performances. On the other hand, that was hardly a tough field for that event, so that may also have had a hand in the tactics of the racers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                    >>Tactics don't bring scorers in around 38 minutes.

                    You have not tried racing
                    >with the leaders at a significantly increased altitude (most of those women
                    >train along the coast) in temps which were probably in the low 80s (memo to the
                    >weather stats greenhorns: the daily low occurs near daybreak and a quick glance
                    >at the recent stats for Tuscon show temps in the low 80s around 10 p.m. when
                    >the high has been in the 90s and the low has been in the 50s) in a distance
                    >race at a championship meet, have you? If you had then you might have realized
                    >that going out too hard to maintain contact in that scenario would dramatically
                    >affect performances. On the other hand, that was hardly a tough field for that
                    >event, so that may also have had a hand in the tactics of the racers.

                    Still doesn't explain why the men ran as a close pack with non scorers less than 40 secs. behind the winner, while the women were spread all over. Many of the women did not run the 5k the next day, so claiming that they were resting is not correct. Running 38' 10k when you can 36' or faster is a relatively easy effort (and I speak from experience of all of these kinds).

                    My own take is that women distance runners tend to disengage competitively much earlier than men, and thus tend to give up and slow down dramatically under less than optimal conditions. Men will run in a tactical race, and fight more often to get back into a race than women, and the differences in the Pac 10 10k demonstrated this difference.

                    But I still would like to hear from someone on site in Tucson who might give a different explanation, such as Craig ran the first 5k in 17' and everyone went with her, or something like that....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                      > Running 38' 10k when you can
                      >36' or faster is a relatively easy effort (and I speak from experience of all
                      >of these kinds).

                      Then you would have realized that running 36' in a time trial at sea level in cool spring temps is a whole different animal from running a championship race in the heat at a good increase in altitude.

                      >My own take is that women distance runners tend to
                      >disengage competitively much earlier than men, and thus tend to give up and
                      >slow down dramatically under less than optimal conditions.

                      Yes the women may have lost contact at an earlier stage in the race. The men may have collectively employed more conservative racing tactics, too.

                      >Men will run in a
                      >tactical race, and fight more often to get back into a race than women, and the
                      >differences in the Pac 10 10k demonstrated this difference.

                      The men's field was also assuredly deeper than the women's, reflecting the nationwide trend in distance running.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                        >> Running 38' 10k when you can
                        >36' or faster is a relatively easy effort
                        >(and I speak from experience of all
                        >of these kinds).

                        Then you would have
                        >realized that running 36' in a time trial at sea level in cool spring temps is
                        >a whole different animal from running a championship race in the heat at a good
                        >increase in altitude.

                        It's not that much different--not 2 minutes in a championship meet. And so why were the men so much closer to the leaders under similar conditions?

                        >My own take is that women distance runners tend
                        >to
                        >disengage competitively much earlier than men, and thus tend to give up
                        >and
                        >slow down dramatically under less than optimal conditions.

                        Yes the
                        >women may have lost contact at an earlier stage in the race. The men may have
                        >collectively employed more conservative racing tactics, too.

                        That's why I'd like to hear from someone at the meet?

                        >Men will run
                        >in a
                        >tactical race, and fight more often to get back into a race than women,
                        >and the
                        >differences in the Pac 10 10k demonstrated this difference.

                        The
                        >men's field was also assuredly deeper than the women's, reflecting the
                        >nationwide trend in distance running.

                        No, not necessarily. The women in the 10k were more significant nationally than the men. Craig's winning time should have been easily within reach of most of the women in that race even under the conditions in Tucson. The field historically was much deeper than the SEC field, yet the SEC ran faster as a whole.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                          >No, not necessarily.
                          >The women in the 10k were more significant nationally than the men. Craig's
                          >winning time should have been easily within reach of most of the women in that
                          >race even under the conditions in Tucson. The field historically was much
                          >deeper than the SEC field, yet the SEC ran faster as a
                          >whole.

                          Wha?! What results are you looking at??
                          1 Alicia Craig Stanford 36:04.95 10
                          2 Desiree Davila Arizona State 36:52.48 8
                          3 Anita Siraki Stanford 37:04.50 6
                          4 Alison Tubbs Washington 37:14.59 5
                          5 Kate Neeper USC 37:30.34 4
                          6 Alvina Begay Arizona State 37:48.33 3
                          7 Ana Cabrera Washington State 38:15.03 2
                          8 Celia Smalls Stanford 39:01.51 1
                          9 Karen Langdorf Arizona 39:02.19
                          10 Jamie Gibbs Washington 39:34.20
                          11 Jenna Wrieden Arizona State 40:03.48
                          Aside from Craig, there are no PAC10 women in the top 20 nationally and including a USC runner who was not in the field at the PAC10 meet, a whopping 2 in the top 40.
                          http://members.aol.com/rpodkam/d1wout04.txt

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Pac 10 women's 10k?

                            Aside from Craig, there are no
                            >o PAC10 women in the top 20 nationally and including a USC runner who was not
                            >in the field at the PAC10 meet, a whopping 2 in the top
                            >40.
                            http://members.aol.com/rpodkam/d1wout04.txt

                            There were 3 men in the top 20 list, so the field was almost equally weak:

                            http://members.aol.com/rpodkam/d1mout04.txt

                            Finals
                            1 Robert Cheseret Arizona 30:24.84 10
                            2 Christopher Emme Stanford 30:26.47 8
                            3 Casey Burchill Arizona State 30:27.84 6
                            4 Ryan Andrus Oregon 30:30.17 5
                            5 Juan Reyes Arizona State 30:30.85 4
                            6 Carlos Carballo California 30:43.23 3
                            7 Brett Gotcher Stanford 30:50.82 2
                            8 Kyle Goklish Arizona 30:54.34 1
                            9 Eric Bohn Arizona 30:58.21
                            10 Mark Mandi Washington 31:03.95
                            11 Mike Sayenko Washington 31:21.61
                            12 Jason Hartmann Oregon 31:26.90
                            13 Travis Boyd Washington 31:36.48
                            14 Andrew Hill Stanford 31:46.44
                            15 JJ Duke Arizona State 32:12.15
                            16 Andrew Jones Washington State 32:27.59

                            The SEC women have 1 in the top 20, and 4 total in the top 40. Also, not a whole lot stronger.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Waffles

                              There were 3
                              >men in the top 20 list, so the field was almost equally
                              >weak:

                              Previously: "The women in the 10k were more significant nationally than the men."

                              200% more top 20 runners is less significant nationally? Or, based on the latest take, "almost equally weak"?

                              The SEC
                              >women have 1 in the top 20, and 4 total in the top 40. Also, not a whole lot
                              >stronger.

                              Previously: "The field historically was much deeper than the SEC field, yet the SEC ran faster as a whole."

                              So, the same number of top 20 runners and 300% more in the top 40 is not as deep? Or, based on the latest take, "not a whole lot stronger"?

                              OK, seems reasonable.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X