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  • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

    Great to see Gay getting back to good form... Hopefully he can get another 1/10 off for London.

    Gatlin: Like several others on the board, I am afraid I get very sceptical when athletes come back from bans, running at the same level of better than they did before they got caught..

    I was sceptical about Blonska, I was sceptical about Steve Mullings... and sadly I feel the same about Gatlin....

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    • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

      I know Gatlin story seemed pretty laughable but is it possible that it's true. I read about it in the Complete Book of the Olympics and Wallechinsky listed several facts that tend to support his story. I'm not saying I believe him but it's certainly possible, right??

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      • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

        Originally posted by dbirds
        I know Gatlin story seemed pretty laughable but is it possible that it's true. I read about it in the Complete Book of the Olympics and Wallechinsky listed several facts that tend to support his story. I'm not saying I believe him but it's certainly possible, right??
        Irrelevant at this point. It would be the biggest travesty if he was innocent.

        Good to see the US has sprinters who are also racers. Neither Gay nor Gatlin will beat themselves. A few hundredths faster and we'll see if that applies to the rest of the field.

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        • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

          Originally posted by tsprint94
          Cmon! Does anybody really believe Gatlin is "clean"??? A PR 8 years after winning gold in 2004? Not to mention who he is training under.... Ugh
          maybe he wasn't ever dirty? :roll:

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          • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

            Originally posted by Grasshopper
            Originally posted by Blues
            ...assuming that the timing, wind measurements, and other standards...were equally accurate to those at the US Olympic Trials...
            Blake didn't have rounds on his legs.
            Blues analysis, though somewhat accurate, is biased...you just can't put it out there that USOT controls are more accurate than the Cayman Islands. (What's the w100 WR, again?) Or forget that athletes routinely run some never to be repeated times in Eugene. But, having said all of that, you, Grasshopper, utter the ultimate canard about rounds. :roll:

            Since 1977, the year the IAAF began accepting auto times, the 100m WR has been broken after rounds on nearly every occasion. You're welcome to look at the WR progression list below and see for yourself. The "rounds" as a detriment argument would probably be proven false for most championships the world around.

            Time Wind Athlete Location of race Date
            10.06 1.3 Bob Hayes Tokyo, Japan 15-Oct-64
            10.03 0.8 Jim Hines Sacramento, USA 20-Jun-68
            10.02 2.0 Charles Greene Mexico City, Mexico 13-Oct-68
            9.95 0.3 Jim Hines Mexico City, Mexico 14-Oct-68
            9.93 1.4 Calvin Smith Colorado Springs, USA 3-Jul-83
            9.83 1.0 Ben Johnson Rome, Italy 30-Aug-87
            9.93 1.0 Carl Lewis Rome, Italy 30-Aug-87
            1.1 Zürich, Switzerland 17-Aug-88
            9.92 1.1 Carl Lewis Seoul, South Korea 24-Sep-88
            9.90 1.9 Leroy Burrell New York, USA 14-Jun-91
            9.86 1.0 Carl Lewis Tokyo, Japan 25-Aug-91
            9.85 1.2 Leroy Burrell Lausanne, Switzerland 6-Jul-94
            9.84 0.7 Donovan Bailey Atlanta, USA 27-Jul-96
            9.79 0.1 Maurice Greene Athens, Greece 16-Jun-99
            9.78 2.0 Tim Montgomery Paris, France 14-Sep-02
            9.77 1.6 Asafa Powell Athens, Greece 14-Jun-05
            1.5 Asafa Powell Gateshead, England 11-Jun-06
            1.0 Asafa Powell Zürich, Switzerland 18-Aug-06
            9.74 1.7 Asafa Powell Rieti, Italy 9-Sep-07
            9.72 1.7 Usain Bolt New York, USA 31-May-08
            9.69 0.0 Usain Bolt Beijing, China 16-Aug-08
            9.58 0.9 Usain Bolt Berlin, Germany 16-Aug-09

            Comment


            • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

              Regardless of whether Justin Gatlin intentionally doped, was innocent and was set up, or was set up because someone knew he was doping and wanted it exposed, a positive test gives us no concrete information regarding how much the steroid may have improved performance. So there's no way to make any valid assumptions about how fast or how slow Gatlin should be able to run when clean.

              Without a history of routine blood test data to look at and without knowing the frequency, duration, and dosing of any possible PED use, we can't really know whether Gatlin's average testosterone levels over time during the 2004-2006 era were much different than what they are today, so assuming PED usage today based solely on his performance isn't warranted. Suspicions based on assumed past history, or based on association, are different discussions.

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              • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                Congrats to Tyson, Ryan on making the team. As to Justin Gatlin before I go giving him a high five I would rather wait a few weeks for my own peace of mind. At 30 y.o. London 2012 is likely the last hurrah for Gatlin at an Olympics where he can reasonably expect to medal. Gatlin is unattached with no major sponsors having picked him up yet. I would feel a lot better about his situation if he took responsibility for his last PED conviction, but the only thing I've heard him say is to pass the buck by saying 'It Wasn't Me'. Look at who he is associating with and how he has been running his mouth since coming back to the sport. You'd be surprised how many athletes think they are oh so smart and will use a second chance to do a better job the next time around of not getting caught. In the twilight of his career with little money coming in he has nothing to lose really by going there again. So after not running competitively for more than two years he comes back to the sport an older guy and in eighteen months he is running more or less at the level he was before he left. We are not stupid.

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                • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                  We would all be stupid to assume that anyone running sub 10 is clean!!!! Wake up everyone!!

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                  • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                    Originally posted by fromage
                    Delighted to see Gay get into the USA Team and Bailey also. You medal chasers already know what we think about the winner. Of course, the latter is a lot more talented than our Trials winner who is finished as a top class sprinter.

                    so what is 9.80 with a nil wind worth...high 9.8s. Bolt not losing sleep is reported
                    Of course, that 9.8 was with rounds and thus might be worth remembering....

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                    • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                      Does anybody just try to enjoy the sport? If I tried to figure out who was running clean and who was dirty, I would give myself an ulcer. I just decided to enjoy each race as it comes and let the drug people figure out the drugs. How do you enjoy the sport with so much skepticism?

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                      • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                        Originally posted by preston
                        Originally posted by Blues
                        ...assuming that the timing, wind measurements, and other standards...were equally accurate to those at the US Olympic Trials...
                        Blues analysis, though somewhat accurate, is biased...you just can't put it out there that USOT controls are more accurate than the Cayman Islands. (What's the w100 WR, again?) Or forget that athletes routinely run some never to be repeated times in Eugene.
                        With all due respect to the many smaller, first time meets all over the world like the Cayman Invitational, my main point, besides showing that I was easily sucked in to another of notorious' incessant troll attempts :wink: , was to mention the possibility that the technology at the different venues could have differed somewhat, which possibly could have accounted for small variations in the recorded time for a performance, since we were dealing with Yohan Blake's "highly superior" .02 sec or .03 sec faster adjusted time at the Cayman Islands meet versus Gatlin's adjusted time at the US Trials. Before I posted what you quoted I tried to find info on the various systems the Cayman meet used, including timing system, starting system, blocks/sensors, wind recording system etc., but was unable to... I should have also mentioned that other factors obviously come into play when comparing performances from different venues too, such as track composition, stadium construction, weather conditions, etc., as we all know. I do admit that I'm probably biased in thinking that a huge, major, and well established meet like the Olympic Trials, Olympics, World Champs, etc. might have more state of the art equipment than a small, first time meet in a small country, but I also agree that assuming that as a possibility might be unfair and unwarranted.

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                        • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                          It is good to be optimistic and enjoy the sport! Actually we would be foolish to think that any of the sports are clean, ie football, baseball, cycling etc. I can enjoy the sport knowing most that are at the top aren't clean. It was just frustrating competing as a clean athlete against the drug cheats. I just feel we give alot of these guys a pass. I guess they should just let them all do it, afterall the most exciting time in baseball was the McGuire Sosa year wasnt it?
                          And 9.58 hundred meter finishes are more exciting than 10.01 right?

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                          • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                            Originally posted by tsprint94
                            We would all be stupid to assume that anyone running sub 10 is clean!!!! Wake up everyone!!
                            Based on past history, I don't assume anyone is clean now. There are athletes who I think have a greater chance of being clean than certain others, but anything is possible, especially with the various techniques used to beat the testing today. Because of that, I still love the sport, but I don't get as excited when I see an outstanding performance today, and I find it harder to respect one athlete more than others based solely on superior performances. And whether fair or not, I also can't help but wonder sometimes if it's all due to extra hours in the weight room and on the track when an athlete comes into a season and appears significantly more muscular and chiseled than ever before, and then proceeds to totally demolish his or her personal bests by a surprising margin... And that's not nationality specific... I guess that's a major reason why I generally avoid discussions now that involve whether one sprinter is "greater" than another, regardless of what their performances say.

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                            • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                              Originally posted by tsprint94
                              We would all be stupid to assume that anyone running sub 10 is clean!!!! Wake up everyone!!
                              Why?

                              Is 10 flat the magic number for you?

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                              • Re: 2012OT m100—Gatlin.... or Gay?

                                RBR says there is a protest?

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