¶2012 OT mJT—Sam Humphreys 268-7 (81.86)

[HopStepJump]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

One of the throwers also threw the javelin into the pole vault area while the event was going on.

That was Crouser. The pole vault benches were only a few feet away from the right sector for the javelin. Not the best plan.

[j-a-m]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

14cm from making the team. That has got to be really frustrating.

The stadium announcer kept talking about how Humphreys was short of the A standard. Then fans sitting close to me thought nobody would go to London. Point is, even people watching at Hayward Field don't know how qualifying standards work.

[Per Andersen]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

Hostetler has an "A" from 2011, 82.24 (269-10). Humphreys wins with "B" and only Hostetler has the "A". Don't they both go?

[j-a-m]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

Hostetler has an "A" from 2011, 82.24 (269-10). Humphreys wins with "B" and only Hostetler has the "A". Don't they both go?

It seems Kinsley, Furey, Hostetler all had the A standard prior to the event, so these three go. And A and B together on the team does not work this year (it was different at last year's WC).

[AS]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

To reiterate, what has been posted a number of times:

"Based on the USOC’s selection procedure, if there are 2 or more athletes in an event with the A standard, no B will go to the Olympics. B’s will be skipped, even if they defeat those with the A standard at the Trials...If an event has no A standard qualifier, the highest placing B at the Trials will be selected. If an event has exactly one A standard qualifier & a B qualifier places higher than the A, then the B qualifier goes. "

http://trackfocus.com/usatfpro/clearing ... -selection

And the ¶s next to names on T&FN formchart indicate who had As coming in...

[Dave]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

That was quite a performance by Crouser. The next few years should be a lot of fun to watch.

[Al in NYC]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

So 3rd, 4th and 5th now go??

OK, this is one instance where I think the 'first past the post' ethos should kick in. All 3 (now) Olympians were beaten (and in this instance by a guy who had 4 throws better than any be said trio).

So you would send only Humphreys alone with the "B", rather than the 3 finalists who have reached the "A"?

[Al in NYC]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

Hostetler has an "A" from 2011, 82.24 (269-10). Humphreys wins with "B" and only Hostetler has the "A". Don't they both go?

IOC's rules for Olympic qualification differ from the IAAF's rules for the World Championships. The Olympics don't allow mixed A and B qualifiers on the same team. Countries get either a single B or up to 3 As per event.

As noted above, the US actually has 3 with the A in the Jav, all of whom will go

[AS]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

So 3rd, 4th and 5th now go??

OK, this is one instance where I think the 'first past the post' ethos should kick in. All 3 (now) Olympians were beaten (and in this instance by a guy who had 4 throws better than any be said trio).

So you would send only Humphreys alone with the "B", rather than the 3 finalists who have reached the "A"?

I'm torn. It just doesn't seem right to leave the most in-form guy behind when he's given the others an out and out whupping. But 3>1...

[donley2]

Re: ¶2012OT mJT—Sam Humphreys 268-7 (81.86)

I think that USATF has the right idea here. Sending three is definitely better than sending one. The confusion is really caused by the IOC's attempt to limit the number of people entered in this monstrosity called the Olympics, with there no mixed A & B rules.

[gktrack]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

To reiterate, what has been posted a number of times:

"Based on the USOC’s selection procedure, if there are 2 or more athletes in an event with the A standard, no B will go to the Olympics. B’s will be skipped, even if they defeat those with the A standard at the Trials...If an event has no A standard qualifier, the highest placing B at the Trials will be selected. If an event has exactly one A standard qualifier & a B qualifier places higher than the A, then the B qualifier goes. "

http://trackfocus.com/usatfpro/clearing ... -selection

And the ¶s next to names on T&FN formchart indicate who had As coming in...

Even if you have the "A", you still need to make the final 8 to go to the Olympics, same with the running events. So, if any of our three A's didn't make it to the final 8, they would not have gone. This seems to be an unknown adder to the forum posters, and has not come into play yet. I've seen this added qualifier several times, but is not written anywhere, which seems odd. For example, here's Crouser's comment when asked about the rule (from article posted on T&FN) which emphasizes the extent of how an A can go to London...

“it’s a crappy rule,” he said. “You hit the A, and all you have to do is make the top eight? OK, I’ll make top eight, go to a five-step (approach) and throw 74 (242 feet) and still make the team. That doesn’t seem right.”

You are not guaranteed anything if you are one of three A's... you have to finish top eight! Take note when watching the mDiscus and maybe an event or two left at the Trials.

[donley2]

Re: ¶2012OT mJT—Sam Humphreys 268-7 (81.86)

I am almost positive that previous precedent (regardless of what the actual written rules say) is that if there are people qualified to go to the Olympics/World Championships and they are not taking away someone elses spot (which would apply to any 3 A only situation) they go to the champs. I would bet you my next pay check that if someone finishes below top 8 and they are the only one eligible to go they will go.

[j-a-m]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

Even if you have the "A", you still need to make the final 8 to go to the Olympics, same with the running events. So, if any of our three A's didn't make it to the final 8, they would not have gone. This seems to be an unknown adder to the forum posters, and has not come into play yet. I've seen this added qualifier several times, but is not written anywhere, which seems odd. For example, here's Crouser's comment when asked about the rule (from article posted on T&FN) which emphasizes the extent of how an A can go to London...

I've been trying for a while now to figure this requirement out. The selection procedures talk about "final", which is unclear, because it could mean final of best 8, final of best 12, or even final as in Trials as such. In the mLJ we were less than an inch away from finding out, but then Kitchens just got the A standard.

[j-a-m]

Re: ¶2012OT mJT—Sam Humphreys 268-7 (81.86)

I would bet you my next pay check that if someone finishes below top 8 and they are the only one eligible to go they will go.

Wouldn't bet against it.

[gh]

Re: 2012OT mJT—top finish may not mean much?

.......

Even if you have the "A", you still need to make the final 8 to go to the Olympics, same with the running events. ........[/quote]

NO YOU DON'T!

read this:

<<1. Rank Order of Finish: All athletes competing in a 2012 U.S. Olympic Team Trials event will be assigned a rank based upon the order of finish for that event. An athlete must compete in each event in which she/he is entered in order to be assigned a rank.
??????5
?Rank order of finish for an individual event will be established as follows:
? Running events: 1) Athletes participating in the final round of competition will be assigned a rank based upon their place- finish in the final (top eight finishers, plus ties) of that event; 2) Athletes that do not qualify for the finals will establish their rank order position based on the fastest time achieved in the semi-final round; and 3) Athletes that do not qualify for the semi-finals will establish their rank order position based on the fastest time achieved in the preliminary rounds. An athlete's final ranking will be based upon the highest round completed by an athlete. For relay events see section II.
? Field events: 1) Athletes participating in the final round of competition will be assigned a rank based upon their place- finish in the finals (top eight finishers, plus ties) of that event; 2) Athletes that do not qualify for the finals will establish their rank order position based on the athlete's best mark achieved in the qualifying round....>>

that's direct from the USATF guidelines.