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Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

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  • Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

    With Yuriy having excellent credentials (45,84/1.42,47/2.17,40/3.43,24), what will it take for him to win a major championship gold medal? Will he challenge the WR?

    In my estimation, speedy athletes who can hold their own in an open 1,500m (i.e.: Gray, 3.43-ish) demonstrate they have the tools on both ends to put together a swift 400m, hold to the 600m and use their strength to maintain form over the final 150m-200m. There will be exceptions.

    Who will establish the next 800m outdoor WR?

  • #2
    Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

    It is amazing to me that guys like Yuriy and Gray would struggle so much at the 15. Looking at the numbers you would think they would easily go 3:35. Goes to show - everyone is different. Although they don't look like it, these guys are apparently more in the mold of a Juantureno than a Coe. Or maybe they would have done better in the 15 if they had worked at it seriously. But you would think that the preparation for the 800 would carry over much better than 3:43.

    I don't think Yuriy will get the WR. He doesn't flow the way Kipketer or Coe did. He seems to force it too much when the lactate is high and his form breaks badly. JMO.

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    • #3
      Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

      Maybe this thread would get a bit more play if the name Borzakovskiy was inserted somewhere. When I saw the subject line I assumed it was about Syedikh. Borzakovskiy hardly has the stature to be a first-name-only guy.

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      • #4
        Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

        Realist is so right. Borzakovskiy is a primadona first class.
        "A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact."
        by Thomas Henry Huxley

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        • #5
          Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

          Ya' know, Realist, Yuriy Mindmyov Someone.

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          • #6
            Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

            Cyril
            As you know, speed is inescapble, and it's importance at the highest levels of running underestimated by the mega mileage crowd. In regards to Gray, he was really a long sprinter. In most countries he'd be running the 400m (45 range) and perhaps only dabble w/ the 800m.
            As a US born runner he had no choice but to move up to reach the levels he did. It was the right choice of course. The relationship between velocity and duration falls within a predictable range Grays fatigue resistance was on the mediocre to low side. Comparing his 600 and 800m pbs he'd have been looking at 340 at best at 1500m. Anyway, Noakes has a good discussion on velocity duration, and fatigue reistance in his comparison
            of performances by Komen, Geb, and Coe.

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            • #7
              Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

              dsrunner-

              I agree and understand. The discussion on the topic of hs milers under 4:10 touches on this as well. It is very interesting nontheless.

              I've had numerous discussions with a soccer coach friend of mine who coaches as elite girls u18 team. The topic being why more very good and fast soccer players don't automatically transfer that talent to middle/distances. He has several very good player (wings included) who run miles and miles in practice and have done so for ten or more years. This is pure fartlek. They also do distance conditioning.

              Some of these girls also run track. However, very few are able to do anything signficant on the oval or in XC.

              My point here is that to excel in an sport or more specifically a track event takes a physiology, psychology and training very specific to the event in which the individual competes. It has become more and more specialized as the perfomances have increased.

              400/800 or 800/1500, interesting the 800 has different types - recently we are seeing more of the 4/8 types. This may be because to mile seriously - takes an entirely different approach. Sit and kick ala Coe/Ovett etc. doesn't work with "the man".

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              • #8
                Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                You should also take into account that it has much to do with anthropometry: A typical soccer player combines physiology of 400-1500 m runners with short legs that enable better stability and acceleration, while middle distance runners have the longest legs among all runners. You can have a very good soccer player that seems to have enormous resistance to fatigue, but if he posess this body build, he would dramatically lose on track against his long-legged opponents due to his short stride.

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                • #9
                  Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                  Atypical soccer player combines physiology of 400-1500 m runners with short legs
                  >that enable better stability and acceleration, while middle distance runners
                  >have the longest legs among all runners.

                  Cartouche-

                  Not neccessarily. There are many soccer players with long legs - though as a result of repeated short sprints the quads tend to grow more than in distance runners. But I can think of many relatively "wirey" soccer players - even at the pro level. Many midfielder have long legs. True strikers tend to be short-legged.

                  I do agree that athropomorhic measurements are important but I also think there is a tremedous pyschological component. For some reason when the lactate really begins to kick in many don't know how to deal with it other than slowing or stopping.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                    Borzo's problem is his coach whom he follows blindly. He's probably the top clean athlete in the 800 right now. If he hadn't taken that ill advised year off to dabble in the 400, he would be close to or even have the WR now. He needs a lot more races and work with tactics if he is to reach his potential. Potential is the dirtiest word in almost any endeavour it seems. Because so few actually reach it.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                      >He's probably the top clean athlete in the 800 right now.

                      You have got to be kidding...the others battling for the gold and person-bests, then, are PROBABLY all dirty?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                        >>He's probably the top clean athlete in the 800 right now.

                        You have got to
                        >be kidding...the others battling for the gold and person-bests, then, are
                        >PROBABLY all dirty?

                        No, he's the best of the clean bunch, potentially. I would think any athlete who claims to have pneumonia, yets runs sub 1:43 within 10 days or so of 'pneumonia' isn't exactly being honest. No one bounces back like that, even from 'walking pneumonia'. So, among the clean guys, he has the most natural ability. But that might not be enough to win against athletes who might not be as talented, but do rely on 'ergogenic' aids. I actually think the three medalists at the WC's were clean, but they weren't the fastest guys necessarily. Nor are they equal in potential. The Algerian hit his peak a couple of years ago, but is a tough, tremendous racer. He could do it again this year.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                          Do you mean the Kenyan wonder, Wilson Kipketer's cousin? Perhaps their family has some incredible recovery abilities. (Or they simply badly planned their drug cycle and it peaked as late as after the championship?)

                          In any case, I think that European runners should take example from Kenyans and should be infected by pneumonia several weeks prior to competition. Their results would undoubtedly raise dramatically.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                            Oh, yes, and what about the soccer players, you are naturally true. The trend towards short legs is most apparent in attackers, but generally technical players usually posess shorter legs because of lower center of gravity. The anthropometric explanation is only one of many, and I also listed it, because I am a nice example of it (I once ran the mile for my school, but I was also a good, very agile soccer player. Recently I measured myself and I found that I have quite short legs, which means that I would probably waste my time if I decided to pursuade running then).

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                            • #15
                              Re: Speed & Strength: Yuriy the WR-holder?

                              I was interested that reading the Oregon phenom - Rupp, was a soccer player. Also, the kid kicking it here in So. Cal Brandon Bethke - 4:09/9:03 11th grade - was also a youth soccer player.

                              So, contradicting my original post, soccer players do often turn out to be good runners. However, I would think it would happen more frequently, but maybe we are just now beginning to see the tip of what is to come. It is a good develomental ground for middle distance guys/girls.

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