1:41 800s

[EPelle]

Re: 1:41 800s

His other 6 @ 1:41.xx were run under excellent to ideal conditions. A 1:41.00 would have to be under ideal conditions (not OG final). A 1:41.99 would also have to be excellent conditions (certainly more possible for DR in an OG final, but still unlikely, imo).

A minor point, which doesn't reduce the weight of your argument: Rudisha's 1.41,54 WL in Saint-Denis was run in far than optimal conditions (pace-maker failed to perform as requested; less than 60 minutes before the meet commenced, torrential rains hit St. Denis, slowing the track).

[Master Po]

Re: 1:41 800s

ePelle -- thanks for the reminder on that performance -- I had forgotten it, which I should not have, bc the conditions make it truly impressive, and is one more bit of evidence for Rudisha's fantastic capacities. Maybe Marlow is right after all! (Just kidding, Marlow! )

As for EastCoastRanger's comment about what it would take for Rudisha to get some exposure beyond his home country and t&F afficionados, I know it will never happen via NBC, but it's too bad, as it is for many great athletes who fall outside the fit-for-the-spotlight template. Imo, Rudisha would make a good profile -- and not just because he's an awesome athlete (which isn't sufficient, as we know). He has an engaging presence in interviews (he doesn't have Gebrselassie charisma, but few do, imo); and the inter-generational story (father earning OG silver, son now going for the gold, etc.) is in the realm of the kind of story lines NBC likes. And as the shortest/fastest distance event, his event can actually be framed in TV-sized bites and can appeal to an audience that does love to watch sprints. Were the opportunity there -- and I know it will never happen -- he could be made to stand out from what appears to most of our audience as an undifferentiated group of Africans winning distance events.

[portsea57]

Re: 1:41 800s

I think the popularity of the 100m is totally over-rated by track fans.
I think it's been talked up by the press. But the bubble will burst.
Every non-track fan I talk to say the same thing. The race is over too quickly!
Comparing the 100m with the 800m is like comparing a one page short - very short -story with a full blown epic novel!
Take the dicussion on this thread.
We're talking plots and sub-plots about the 800m
For example, if Rudisha goes out at under 50 pace, will he risk dying in the final straight.
Or, how does he handle the semis?
Now these question do not arise in the 100m.
In the UK, we've had two Olympic 100m champs in the relatively recent past ( Wells and Christie) but their popularity never came anywhere near Ovett, Coe or Cram's.
And, come to think of it. I bet these pages have had more words directed at Alan Webb and Pre than on any US sprinter

[Gebrucilassie]

Re: 1:41 800s

Agree w Powell, and pretty much everyone else here who is passing the time by discussing this far-fetched scenario w Marlow! Not really trying to persuade you, Marlow, as I know that's as unlikely as, well, an 800 WR in the OG!

Marlow, you present this scenario as if Rudisha has a supply of 1:41 in the bank, and can simply deal out a 1:41.00 anytime he wants to. Yes, I know he's run 6 x 1:41.xx in his career, but there are reasons -- all of which you know -- that none of those times are in either a WC or OG setting. It isn't "simply" the 3 rounds, including the level at which someone may have to run the sf, and the OG pressures, etc. It's also the fact that the WR in this event (and probably most events in our sport) has been pursued under optimal conditions -- all of which you know -- to the point that there is a far greater gap now in this event (and probably many others) between OG circumstances and any of the ideal-conditions WR settings. Moreover, regarding the 800m specifically and looking beyond Rudisha, of all of the members of the sub-1:43 club, only three ran their lifetime best in an OG (or WC) final (Rodal, Onyancha, Tellez, all in Atlanta).

All of this is the result -- which you also know -- of the way in which the sport has developed globally and professionally in the past 2-3 decades. Thus, it should come as no surprise -- which I know it isn't to you -- that (on the men's side) in middle and long distance running, the last WRs at the OG were in 1976 (Juantorena/800, Garderud/St). And -- as you know -- in other distance events the time is longer since WRs at OG (Viren/10k, Bikila/M, Elliott/1500). (I don't think it's ever been done -- at least not in the postWW2 era -- in the 5k). So, the ideal way in which WRs have been developed in most events in our sport makes their attainment in OG circumstances even less likely. This is especially true in the 800. But I know you know all of this already.

(By the way, how many hours til T&F starts?)

Just a guess, since I'm too lazy to look, but both of Rudisha's WR's were set with a rabbit. Not to mention every 800 WR probably dating back to Juantorena's at the '76 Games. No matter what our esteemed friend Marlow thinks, Rudisha is NOT going to set a WR without Tangui or Scherer and last time I checked neither of them were at the Olympics :wink:

[Marlow]

Re: 1:41 800s

Rudisha is NOT going to set a WR without [a rabbit]

While I don't see anyone taking the field out in 49, if Rudy chose to do so (and lord knows he could), no one could/would have a chance to beat him - mission accomplished: Gold! . . . plus he could have a chance at 1:40.x.

[Conor Dary]

Re: 1:41 800s

I think a WR is pretty remote. But what if Rudisha went out really slow. Would the field be prepared or would they all be flummoxed, and looking around?

Should be a fun race to watch.

[gh]

Re: 1:41 800s

Marlow, you present this scenario as if Rudisha has a supply of 1:41 in the bank, and can simply deal out a 1:41.00 anytime he wants to.

Well, in a way he does. If he were offered $10,000,000 to run a 1:41 on a certain date at a certain time, do you doubt he coudn't? I think he could make it work.
Rounds complicate the matter, but if Ralph Doubell can do it, can't Rudisha?

If by reffing Doubell u mean set wr in OG u forget that D had altitude aid and the first OG (first real major of any sort?) run on synthetic. And in an era where WRs in OG were the norm. Not remotely comparable.

[TN1965]

Re: 1:41 800s

The last two WR holders did not win the Olympics (although Coe won 1500 twice) , so Rudisha should take nothing for granted.

But they weren't going in with the kind of dominance that Rudisha has now. Coe had Ovett for company in Moscow, with a very hot Cruz in LA (plus years of injury/illness). Kipketer fell foul of nationality requirements in Atlanta, and was off his game before Sydney.

But Aman beat Rudisha last year, and there is another junior (Amos) who could be better than Aman. So if I were Rudisha, I would not take anything for granted.

[jlt]

Re: 1:41 800s

No-one is taking anything for granted, least of all Rudisha. He's a humble and respectful guy who knows well that 800 favorites eg Coe have failed to produce at OG. Expect some good running.



L

[kuha]

Re: 1:41 800s

No-one is taking anything for granted, least of all Rudisha. He's a humble and respectful guy who knows well that 800 favorites eg Coe have failed to produce at OG. Expect some good running.

Good for him. Nothing here is guaranteed. He's wise to focus on the real job, which is winning. He can then race the clock at Zurich, Brussels, and Rieti--as every sane person would expect.

[Marlow]

Re: 1:41 800s

He's wise to focus on the real job, which is winning. He can then race the clock at Zurich, Brussels, and Rieti--as every sane person would expect.

Then I hope he's one crazy SOB, cuz if he DID go for the WR (regardless of whether he got it), he'd win by twice the margin he would if he raced 'tactically'. The slower the pace, the more possibility of his getting boxed in and unable to respond to a break. It's happened to plenty of very talented people.

[hc10003]

Re: 1:41 800s

both of Rudisha's WR's were set with a rabbit. Not to mention every 800 WR probably dating back to Juantorena's at the '76 Games. No matter what our esteemed friend Marlow thinks, Rudisha is NOT going to set a WR without Tangui or Scherer and last time I checked neither of them were at the Olympics

Curious -- does anyone know the all time fastest 800m that was run in a race without a predetermined rabbit? Would it be all the way back to Rodal's gold in Atlanta '96? Thx for any info.

[Master Po]

Re: 1:41 800s

both of Rudisha's WR's were set with a rabbit. Not to mention every 800 WR probably dating back to Juantorena's at the '76 Games. No matter what our esteemed friend Marlow thinks, Rudisha is NOT going to set a WR without Tangui or Scherer and last time I checked neither of them were at the Olympics

Curious -- does anyone know the all time fastest 800m that was run in a race without a predetermined rabbit? Would it be all the way back to Rodal's gold in Atlanta '96? Thx for any info.

I can promise you that someone on these boards knows the answer to this for sure. I can also promise you that I'm not that person, but I think maybe I know the answer. And, I can promise you that in my experience the best way to get the right answer is to post something that I think is right but that turns out to be off by a bit... So, in the 29 races (not performers or performances -- races) in which someone ran faster than Rodal's 1:42.58, 28 of those were on some version of the "grand prix" circuit. I know that many of those were rabbited, and I'm guessing that all were rabbited. But there is one faster than Rodal's that I think was run in a non-rabbited championship setting -- Rudisha's 1:42.12 from Nairobi earlier this year, which I think was the Kenyan OT and which I think was not rabbited. So, I'm educatedly guessing -- and waiting for correction -- that the fastest non-rabbited was Rudisha's 1:42.12, and then Rodal's OG victory.

[ATK]

Re: 1:41 800s

I don't think the 99% will remember the WR for very long. I've seen a bunch of swimming WRs over the years in the Olympics, but I can't say I really remember when, who or what event they have happened in.

FWIW, swimming records get broken very VERY often.

[kuha]

Re: 1:41 800s

So, I'm educatedly guessing -- and waiting for correction -- that the fastest non-rabbited was Rudisha's 1:42.12, and then Rodal's OG victory.

You could very well be right. In terms of semantic nit-picking, I wonder how much difference there is here in people's thinking between a) a race not having a predetermined pacer; and b) an athlete actually leading wire to wire? I haven't seen footage of the '96 race recently and honesty can't recall how much time Rodahl spent in the lead. I do know that Johnny Gray's 1:42.80 was a solo-from-the-front effort.