Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Women's steeplechasing needs a star

Collapse

Unconfigured Ad Widget

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • TN1965
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Originally posted by Conor Dary
    Depends what we mean by star. I wouldn't call Shaheen a star. WR holder sure, and a fantastic runner and I am sure he helps sells tickets when he is in form. But frankly, I wouldn't recognize him if he now walked right past me, like say Bekele, Geb or El G and certainly Rono would, and doubt I am alone in that. And as for Kiptanui, he was big, but he was also WR in the 5000 once. The same with Roelants who was multi-talented, cross country, marathons, etc.
    But I'm pretty much sure you would recognize Kemboi if he took off his shirt and started dancing in front of you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Master Po
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Agree w pretty much everything being stated here -- stardom is really context-specific in most sports, including all the athletics events. Even in athletics, few break out beyond their "home" events or home countries -- much less beyond athletics generally -- though they may well be recognized by those most passionate about the sport, e.g., most of the people here.

    I'm guilty too of overlooking steeple on occasion, as much as I love it -- I am a passionate follower of distance running and its history and take some pride in knowing the history. But on another thread when I was posting about WRs set in distance events in postwar OG, I thought I had that history in my head, but when I was reviewing the history to make sure I hadn't forgotten anyone, sure enough, I had forgotten about Garderud altogether.

    All that stated -- it is a great event, and I have enjoyed the development of the women's edition as much as anything in the past few years. Stardom aside, it would be great to see some deep, international competition at the top of both men's and women's steeple, so that it's not always a Kenyan championship (I know that's perfectly OK with the Kenyans! just my opinion), and so the women's event doesn't "languish" in low-9:00 land. If and when the women's world record comes to the 10-11% differential w the men's, it will be much closer to 8:50, iirc. (I don't have these #s in front of me as I write this.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Originally posted by Powell
    Originally posted by Conor Dary
    The men's side has never had a real star, except maybe Rono
    Kiptanui wasn't a 'real star'? Shaheen? Or, if we go back in time, Roelants, Garderud, Malinowski?
    Depends what we mean by star. I wouldn't call Shaheen a star. WR holder sure, and a fantastic runner and I am sure he helps sells tickets when he is in form. But frankly, I wouldn't recognize him if he now walked right past me, like say Bekele, Geb or El G and certainly Rono would, and doubt I am alone in that. And as for Kiptanui, he was big, but he was also WR in the 5000 once. The same with Roelants who was multi-talented, cross country, marathons, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • Powell
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Originally posted by Conor Dary
    The men's side has never had a real star, except maybe Rono
    Kiptanui wasn't a 'real star'? Shaheen? Or, if we go back in time, Roelants, Garderud, Malinowski?

    To me, the notion that SC isn't as important as flat distance races and is mostly run by people who aren't fast enough to be 'proper' runners seems to be US-specific. Over here, historically it's been a highly prestigious event, and the one that the most talented distance runners tended to specialize in.

    Leave a comment:


  • pakillo
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    I'd say 9 minutes barrier for women is the same as 8 minutes for men. We already have several women under 9:10 which is fantastic result and one under 9min. How many men in history ran under 8min?
    This event still develops and we shouldn't expect entry standard to stay around 9:45.

    Leave a comment:


  • Conor Dary
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    The ongoing thread that begs to ask the question, why?

    The men's side has never had a real star, except maybe Rono, and that was because he held the 3 other WRs at the same time. Until the equivalent happens on the women's side, you folks are all whistling Dixie....

    As gh noted most of the women are in it because they can't compete in the other distance events. Of course, in a way that is true for the men also, but the depth in men's distance running is immense compared to the women.

    Leave a comment:


  • James Fields
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Master Po wrote:

    . . . some people I know who follow distance events -- most of them can't tell you much about the steeplechase.
    Agreed! Consider this current authority:

    http://www.nbcolympics.com/track-and...equipment.html

    “Steeplechase hurdles . . . stand 3 feet (91.4 centimeters) high.”

    The 91.4 cm height was correct for women's steeplechase hurdlesin the late 1980s and early 1990s. USA rule 122 was changed, effective 1995, to specify 76.2 cm (30 inches) and IAAF rule 164 followed via its 1996-97 rules although various countries and venues did not acquire the new (lower) barriers until 1998-99.

    Leave a comment:


  • aaronk
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    I see the women's steeple at the same place women's vaulting was BETWEEN the Dragila/Feofanova phase and the time Isinbayeva came to prominence!!

    As someone said, women's PV'ing began with, basically, converted gymnasts.
    They brought it to the 13 foot level.
    (Remember Melissa Price??)

    Then along comes Stacy Dragila (though preceeded a bit by Australia's Emma George!!) who tore through the 14 and 15 foot height levels, broke all the records, and was seen as the event's inevitable first 16 footer!!

    But Feofanova beat her to it. (In fact, sadly, Dragila never did reach 16!!)
    It was only after Feofanova's Roger Bannister-like breakthrough that Isi emerged as the QUEEN of women's PV'ing.

    Same with the steeple.

    First, any woman who could run a 9:30 or better flat 3K tried the SC.
    Then came Samitova-Galkina!!
    If those 9:30-flat race types could be equated to the PV "gymnast-types", then Galkina was the "Stacy Dragila AND Feofanova" of her event.

    Dragila, because she brought the time down to "respectable" levels.
    Feofanova, because she broke through the event's "sub-4:00 mile-type" barrier, running the first sub-9:00 SC.

    Now we do indeed await for the SC's "Isi" to come along.
    Bannister, George (first 15 footer!!), Dragila, Feofanova, Galkina were the barrier breakers.

    Now we need to get someone who can run 8:48, and lead a group of 6-10 others in under 9:00.....in the same race!!

    BTW, I thought Jenny (Barringer) Simpson had the potential to go sub-9:00.
    And I believe that today. She's actually faster than Galkina in the flat 1500, and you'd need to run at least that fast (sub-4:00) in order to run 8:48.
    Hopefully, Jenny will return full force to the SC next year or in 2014.

    Leave a comment:


  • Master Po
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Athletics stardom that translates beyond home country and/or event-specific followers is rare. I would guess that Samitova-Galkina is to some extent -- perhaps to a great extent -- I wouldn't know -- a star in Russia. As Alan Shank cites above, she is also an exception to what gh mentioned above that regarding this event -- perhaps she's the exception that (at this stage in the event's history) makes gh's point, but time will tell). But the steeple isn't really one of the star-making events in any case. When I think of some people I know who follow distance events, even most of them can't tell you much about the steeplechase, though they seem to have a special admiration for it, amidst their non-knowledge.

    To Flumpy's question -- I don't have the entire career at hand, but as noted, she was 4th at Berlin WC in 2009, and won the 3k at Euro team championships that year, fwiw. She also won a couple of other big meets that season (Rome, Athens). I think she had a baby in 2010, so maybe nothing for that year. Last year, iirc, she ran the steeple at Adidas in NYC, in pretty good race w a couple of the top Africans (Chemos, Assefa). She also won the Stockholm (Diamond League?) race. But what I don't know is if all of this adds up to an unusually thin competition schedule (given the context -- e.g., having a child), or if it's kind of typical for a steeple specialist, especially one who is probably near the end of her competitive career (though I'm sure she would like to continue it next year at WC's in Moscow).

    Leave a comment:


  • EPelle
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    She's competed in at least nine races outside of Russia since Beijing (including one cross country race) -- farthest from home being New York.

    http://www.rusathletics.com/sbo/athletes.98.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • Flumpy
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    How many times has she competed since Beijing and how many of those were outside of Russia?

    Leave a comment:


  • Alan Shank
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Originally posted by Powell
    We've already had the kind of star you're talking about. The 8:58 by Samitova is one hell of a record, especially if you consider she set it in a non-pacemakered race in hot weather. Like the 15.50 by Inessa Kravets, it didn't get the attention it should have because it came early in the history of the event, but just like Kravets's record, it may last for a while.
    Hear, hear! Galkina had all the best times in the early history of the steeple, including a WR 9:01.59 in 2004, when, unfortunately, the event was not held in the Olympics. In 2007, she was not in that kind of shape, but tried to run 9:00 in the heat of Osaka, fading to 7th as her countrywomen finished 1st and 2nd. Then she ran that WR Olympic final, the ultimate athletics achievement. She ran 4th in Berlin in 9:11. She is now 34, and made the Russian team, but with 9:24. I suspect she will set a fast pace in London, but is a longshot to medal.

    She has tremendous range, as well, with 2:00.29, 4:01.29 and 14:33.13 PBs.
    Cheers,
    Alan Shank
    Woodland, CA, USA

    Leave a comment:


  • Powell
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    We've already had the kind of star you're talking about. The 8:58 by Samitova is one hell of a record, especially if you consider she set it in a non-pacemakered race in hot weather. Like the 15.50 by Inessa Kravets, it didn't get the attention it should have because it came early in the history of the event, but just like Kravets's record, it may last for a while.

    Leave a comment:


  • Deerfoot
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    Gh, I tend to agree with you, but why is it either/or? In fact, greater specialisation in the event, with more top quality steeplechasers running, would be more likely to produce a great athlete. A broadening of the base would help the quality of the event overall, but I think an outstanding steeplechaser would have more effect on the general popularity of the event.

    Norunner, the high jump and the long jump are long established events. My point is that an outstanding steeplechaser would help raise the profile of a new event. Obviously an event cannot have a dominant figure all of the time. I disagree about dominant figures necessarily making an event boring. One of the reasons I watch athletics is to see excellence. Of course closely competitive matches can be exciting too, but I can appreciate both. Certainly I think the overall profile of an event tends to be higher when there is a great champion in it.

    Leave a comment:


  • norunner
    replied
    Re: Women's steeplechasing needs a star

    So why only the steeple? Who is constantly breaking records in the high jump? long jump? By your logic most events would be missing (and needing) a star. And i don't think we need such dominant stars at all, i actually prefer to see close competitions with no clear favorites. To me the mens long jump in London will be one of the most exciting events because there are a dozen athletes who can win it. Now if there was a superstar like Carl Lewis in the mix it would be boring.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X