¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

[ATK]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

I agree but Jones, Ottey, Drechsler, Jackson and Torrence never ran 400 at a global meet.

So considering most of them are overall faster than Felix (Jones and Ottey significantly), you think they would have been capable of sub 47?

[26mi235]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

For all those that are faster at 100 than 200, you can just about forget about them being that good in the 400 (certainly 47-type good).

The notion that AF can improve on her 48-low relay legs to run a 47.5 after she showed she could win 400s but not begin to scare 48.99 seems somewhere past fantasy for people that are as knowledgeable as those posting and reading regularly here.

[fasttrack85]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

How is it that her reported specific work and comp prep nearest to the left of the F/T curve produces faster major SpecEnd performances than those reported prep efforts at the AnT junction? Is she simply more responsive with absolute speed and creative reserve functions (SE, IT, etc.) than the more popular gross durations of anaerobic (high lactate producing) and aerobic work for 400 related events?

huh?

[fasttrack85]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

[My thinking was also that Gardner is a 100-type -- and then I saw her relay leg at NCAAs and suddenly my perspective changed.

As for VCB, I saw no particular decline in her performance until suddenly this year she was not on the same level. Rather than contend for another 200 Gold she barely held on for fourth (although she did medal in the 100). I will wait until next year to get more info, but if this was not a bit of an anomaly, she will not be a major player four years from now -- not saying that if she just focuses on the 100 for speed but the 200 only for the Games that she might not medal again. AF's return to the 100 for speed has made the 200 more of a challenge for VCB. (But she medaled with two great 100 runners for competition.)[/quote][/quote][/quote]


Even though I do believe English Gardners greatest strength is the 100 like you I believe she had untapped potential in some of the longer sprints. She has a 53.98 from 2006 when she was only 14! Many 100 meter specialists at the elite level couldnt run a 400 that well( Shelly Ann Fraser is an example). Carmelita Jeter also has a 53.9 pb at 400 so that puts it into perspective. English was a 200/400 specialist who moved down and that seems to be a prereq in many of the extreme greats(Bolt, Koch, Flo Jo). I expect big things from her.

I also don't really think VCB showed any sort of decline at all. I think she just prioritzied differently. For her winning the 100 and having a complete resume was more important than a three peat. She ran a couple of low 10.8x and a 7.01 indoors. Her starts at times can rival even Shelly's if only she could just be consistent with them. Keep in mind as well that she tried to coach herself(not always a good idea). The key for Veronica is just to stay injury free and I am sure there will be many years of good running left from her. More and more we are seeing that late 20's are no longer the cut off point in track and field anymore. Its just that ppl get complacent or don't train wisely or get too adjusted to routines that there body has adapted to and no longer provides stimulus. I see VCB at the next two world championships and possibly in Rio as well.

[Gleason]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

I agree but Jones, Ottey, Drechsler, Jackson and Torrence never ran 400 at a global meet.

So considering most of them are overall faster than Felix (Jones and Ottey significantly), you think they would have been capable of sub 47?

I don't know because none of them has run rounds of an open 400 at the global level and most of them have medalled at an OG 100.

[Gleason]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

For all those that are faster at 100 than 200, you can just about forget about them being that good in the 400 (certainly 47-type good).

The notion that AF can improve on her 48-low relay legs to run a 47.5 after she showed she could win 400s but not begin to scare 48.99 seems somewhere past fantasy for people that are as knowledgeable as those posting and reading regularly here.

Perhaps the above is accurate, but I hope that Felix races more and trains less in the next four years. We shall see then.

[Gabriella]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

There's no doubt Felix has tremendous ability over 400m but she runs relay legs better than open races, as do many athletes. Grit Breuer consistently ran mid 48 relay legs, but her 400m open PB remained 49.4. Athletes run on average 0.8 faster then their flat form during the relay, but some can run 1.0+ faster. Breuer was one of these; she couldnt even break 50 secs in Atlanta yet ran a 48.6 relay leg.

We have to be careful making predictions based on 100/200 form as well. After her 21.71 in her debut sprint season, Athletics Today suggested Drechsler could be the first woman to run sub 47 for the 400m. In the context of that time, maybe that was theorectically possible for a woman, but we can look back now and laugh. Similarly, after her 21.72 silver in Seoul, Grace Jackson said she wanted to break the then 200m WR (22.27) indoors and then concentrate on the 400 "running sub 50 secs every time I step on the track" and "maybe go for the WR". She ran 22.95 indoors and then never broke 50 secs in the 400m again.

In London Felix was obviously capable of a fast 400m; her relay leg demonstrates this. But it doesn't mean she could run a gold medal winning race, with rounds, with women close to her, nor does it mean she could replicate her relay time in the open or run faster than that in the open. The relay leg is what it is; an extremely fast relay leg.

[TrackFan4Ever]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

Despite the history lesson and the statistics, if Felix were to make the 400 her "baby," we would see extremely fast times in the open 400. Her 400 times on relay legs are a reflection of what she could do in the open 400!

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

I think that Felix will be better in four years. Despite her running the 100 in London, her times at 200 and 4x400 were marginally slower than at Osaka in 2007 where she declined the 100 after making the team.

IMHO she has the ability to break WRs at 200 & 400. Her 100 PR is slower than Marita Koch's PR of 10.83 in 1983 - when Koch also ran only relay 400s - but her 200 PR is 0.02 faster than Koch's 21.71, so a 47.1 is reasonable.

I'm not a sprint expert, but I suspect that Felix should have done as Jeter did in 2011 between nationals and Daegu and run three 100s and two 200s - not the one 200 that she did run. Perhaps those races would have given her the speed to produce a sub - 49 at Daegu in the open 400.

In 2012 she has run about 14 100s, seven 200s and three 4x400 relay legs, but she could have added three 200s and 400s before London in lieu of her strenous workouts - probably with even better results. In 2007 she ran 35 races as a fulltime college student. As a track & field fan, I look forward to Felix's improving at her best distances.

You got that right :lol:

[Flumpy]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

Despite the history lesson and the statistics, if Felix were to make the 400 her "baby," we would see extremely fast times in the open 400. Her 400 times on relay legs are a reflection of what she could do in the open 400!

Yes, they suggest that she could do a low 49.

[mump boy]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

Felix spent 2 seasons concentrating on the 400m, in '10 she couldn't run under 50 and in '11 she lost the WC and only ran 49.6

As Gabriella pointed out it is quite usually for a relay leg to be .8/1 sec faster than your individual (unless you're TBO) but you are advocating that Felix can run 1 sec FASTER than her relay split, in the individual

This is pure fantasy

[ATK]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

Felix spent 2 seasons concentrating on the 400m, in '10 she couldn't run under 50 and in '11 she lost the WC and only ran 49.6

As Gabriella pointed out it is quite usually for a relay leg to be .8/1 sec faster than your individual (unless you're TBO) but you are advocating that Felix can run 1 sec FASTER than her relay split, in the individual

This is pure fantasy

Exactly.

[Gleason]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

Felix spent 2 seasons concentrating on the 400m, in '10 she couldn't run under 50 and in '11 she lost the WC and only ran 49.6

As Gabriella pointed out it is quite usually for a relay leg to be .8/1 sec faster than your individual (unless you're TBO) but you are advocating that Felix can run 1 sec FASTER than her relay split, in the individual

This is pure fantasy

She ran four races, defeated Montsho in all four races and was ranked #1 by T&FN. If Felix and Richards meet at nationals and worlds, they should run in the 48s as Richards did in 2006. They are a few months apart in age because both of them were born in 1985, so may they have many fast times in the next four years.

[ATK]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

She ran four races, defeated Montsho in all four races and was ranked #1 by T&FN. If Felix and Richards meet at nationals and worlds, they should run in the 48s as Richards did in 2006. They are a few months apart in age because both of them were born in 1985, so may they have many fast times in the next four years.

Winning does not equate to fast times.

I don't think you understand how hard it really is for a woman to run sub 49 in the open 400.
Go check how many times a 48 second 400 has been run in the past 27 years.

[Tuariki]

Re: ¶2012 OG: w200–Allyson Felix (US) 21.88

Felix spent 2 seasons concentrating on the 400m, in '10 she couldn't run under 50 and in '11 she lost the WC and only ran 49.6

As Gabriella pointed out it is quite usually for a relay leg to be .8/1 sec faster than your individual (unless you're TBO) but you are advocating that Felix can run 1 sec FASTER than her relay split, in the individual

This is pure fantasy

Exactly.

Critics always say it is pure fantasy until someone does it. Suggesting Marita Koch would go 47.60 a year before she did would have been hailed as pure fantasy.
Two months ago suggesting Nigel Amos and Timothy Kitum would run the times they ran to set WJ and WY records would have been hailed as pure fantasy.

IMO Felix has the ability to get into the low 48s. Can she go faster? Who knows? Unlikely perhaps, but it definitely is not pure fantasy.