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¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

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  • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

    Okay, it's been fun guys, but I'm outta here til next year's WC's. I know the board will soon be reverting to arguments about Title IX and NCAA Division III and doping, which is fine- have at it. I'll be spending time with my family on a wide assortment of other things, like my son's 12-year-old league YMCA basketball game this evening.

    Comment


    • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

      Originally posted by kuha

      This notion that "all that matters is racing/winning" is actually quite exciting and liberating. We can throw away all stopwatches, since time doesn't matter. T&FN, are you brave enough to do this? We can also throw out all precise measure of distances. If only winning matters, the exact distance doesn't matter in the slightest: a 5000 is just as useful as a 5322, a 4144, or any other arbitrary distance between a given start line and a given finish line.

      This is a recipe for a true spectator's utopia. Bring on the Brave New World.
      Excellent idea. No Times News: Winning is all that matters.

      Comment


      • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

        Originally posted by gh
        quick thoughts on 3 different topics in the preceding posts:

        1. For this cowboy, the AOY story begins and ends with Rudisha. Nobody else is remotely close. (I downplay doublers: why should somebody who has the advantage of being able to contest two similar events get more credit than those who are restricted to one?)

        2. I was otherwise preoccupied and haven't had time to see any video, but people whose judgment I trust are insistent that the Ethiopians purposely gave Lagat a shove that allowed Gebremeskel his gap at the end.

        3. Screw fast times: I'll take a race like last night's over all the rabbited sub-13s in history anyday. This was about racing, not a time trial. As it should be.
        1. The 800 was probably the finest race every run anywhere by anyone. He should be the AOY.
        2. I have no opinion.
        3. It still escapes me why a runner of Olympic finalist caliber wouldn't just gut it out for 13:00 and let the chips fall where they may. For most of those guys, there would be no downside.

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        • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

          Originally posted by Dave
          3. It still escapes me why a runner of Olympic finalist caliber wouldn't just gut it out for 13:00 and let the chips fall where they may. For most of those guys, there would be no downside.
          Because you would be certain to lose, big time. Ask Dave Bedford. Working with others to share the lead is something else however.

          Too bad there isn't more team strategy like in cycling.

          Comment


          • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

            Originally posted by Conor Dary
            Originally posted by Dave
            3. It still escapes me why a runner of Olympic finalist caliber wouldn't just gut it out for 13:00 and let the chips fall where they may. For most of those guys, there would be no downside.
            Because you would be certain to lose, big time. Ask Dave Bedford. Working with others to share the lead is something else however.

            Too bad there isn't more team strategy like in cycling.
            The three Americans could have done this so at least one of them would have ended up with a medal. They could have shared the lead with a 13:00-13:15 pace until the last 800-1200 and then let it all out. Worst case scenario would have been what they ended up with. Best case, at least one of them would have been on the stand.

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            • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

              Originally posted by Dave

              The three Americans could have done this so at least one of them would have ended up with a medal. They could have shared the lead with a 13:00-13:15 pace until the last 800-1200 and then let it all out. Worst case scenario would have been what they ended up with. Best case, at least one of them would have been on the stand.
              Rupp and Lagat work together? Ha.

              Comment


              • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                Originally posted by aaronk
                I just posted about how awful the Women's 5K was!!
                Well, here's a comparison to be made of the men's and women's races.

                The women's winning time was 15:04.26.
                The WR for women is 14:11.15.

                Thus, Defar's winning time was 53.11 seconds off the WR

                The men's winning time was 13:41.66.
                The WR for men is 12:37.35.

                Thus, Farah's winning time was 1:04.31 off the WR!!

                And I'd thought the WOMEN'S race was the WORST!!!

                HA!!
                Here are the 1k splits:
                1k Koech 2:55.40
                2k Lomong 5:56.70
                3k Alamirew 8:42.95
                4k Gebremeskel 11:16.47
                5k Farah 13:41.66

                That's under 5:00 for the last 2k. What isn't amazing about that?

                Comment


                • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                  I think most of the posters who were disappointed by the slow pace in the 5K aren't saying "these athletes OWE it to us to run hard" or" the smart way to win this race is to run hard from the front" (though a few are.) Most are like me, they simply enjoy seeing a hard race from the gun, rather than what the championship distance races too often are. There are exceptions for me, like the Athens m1500. THAT was dramatic, even the slow first 700, wondering what the heck El G was going to do off of a slowish, non-rabbitted pace. Of course, that race would have been a lot less memorable if it had dawdled for another 400-500m, but it didn't. EL G took the bull by the horns and ran every 100m segment over the last 800 faster than the previous 100. It was brilliant. But then a few days later, going into the 5K final, I was thinking, right, the only chance Bekele has to beat El G is to go, early on, at 12:50 pace, make it a "guts race" as Pre once said. Wow! we're gonna see Bekele push the pace and push it and push it and push it and push it to an unhuman limit....that's his only chance.....how long will El G be able to hang on? The two greatest runners of that period, going at it hammer and tongs. Well, that didn't happen. It went in 13:14 and El G won by 0.2 sec, but it wasn't what I had hoped for. Think Bedford in Munich, Pre in many races, Nick Rose (another man without a great finish), Salazar.....raunning hard form the front and amazing us. Pre vs Lindgren in, what, the Pac-8 XC meet (?) shoulder-to-shoulder for 5 miles (or six, or whatever the distance was), no pussyfooting around, going as hard as they could go the whole way. THAT'S what we hope for. Yes, we almost never get it in the OG or WC, but we can still hope, because single file rabbitted races on the circuit do get a bit old.

                  Comment


                  • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                    Originally posted by DrJay
                    I think most of the posters who were disappointed by the slow pace in the 5K aren't saying "these athletes OWE it to us to run hard" or" the smart way to win this race is to run hard from the front" (though a few are.) Most are like me, they simply enjoy seeing a hard race from the gun, rather than what the championship distance races too often are. There are exceptions for me, like the Athens m1500. THAT was dramatic, even the slow first 700, wondering what the heck El G was going to do off of a slowish, non-rabbitted pace. Of course, that race would have been a lot less memorable if it had dawdled for another 400-500m, but it didn't. EL G took the bull by the horns and ran every 100m segment over the last 800 faster than the previous 100. It was brilliant. But then a few days later, going into the 5K final, I was thinking, right, the only chance Bekele has to beat El G is to go, early on, at 12:50 pace, make it a "guts race" as Pre once said. Wow! we're gonna see Bekele push the pace and push it and push it and push it and push it to an unhuman limit....that's his only chance.....how long will El G be able to hang on? The two greatest runners of that period, going at it hammer and tongs. Well, that didn't happen. It went in 13:14 and El G won by 0.2 sec, but it wasn't what I had hoped for. Think Bedford in Munich, Pre in many races, Nick Rose (another man without a great finish), Salazar.....raunning hard form the front and amazing us. Pre vs Lindgren in, what, the Pac-8 XC meet (?) shoulder-to-shoulder for 5 miles (or six, or whatever the distance was), no pussyfooting around, going as hard as they could go the whole way. THAT'S what we hope for. Yes, we almost never get it in the OG or WC, but we can still hope, because single file rabbitted races on the circuit do get a bit old.
                    I agree with just about all of this.

                    The funny thing, to me, is that many here are ALL FOR races in which the entire field but ONE has the benefit of a pacesetter (i.e., the courageous front-runner), but HATE races in which ALL the runners benefit from a pacesetter at least some part of the way. It's some version of the old amateur idea: we love rabbits when they are "amateurs" (that is, doing the job incidentally) but hate them when they are pros (that is, dedicated to that job alone). There is some logic in this, but it's nowhere near as simple as some would like to think.

                    Comment


                    • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                      I think running message boards need their own version of Godwin's Law to handle situations when Prefontaine's name is trotted out to stand in virtuous contrast to the athletes in a race like this one.

                      I don't recall who here proposed that the US contingent would have been well served to take the pace, but that doesn't seem to be the wisest suggested move given the superior SBs and PBs of the other contenders.

                      Comment


                      • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                        Originally posted by Gebfan2
                        Originally posted by aaronk
                        I just posted about how awful the Women's 5K was!!
                        Well, here's a comparison to be made of the men's and women's races.

                        The women's winning time was 15:04.26.
                        The WR for women is 14:11.15.

                        Thus, Defar's winning time was 53.11 seconds off the WR

                        The men's winning time was 13:41.66.
                        The WR for men is 12:37.35.

                        Thus, Farah's winning time was 1:04.31 off the WR!!

                        And I'd thought the WOMEN'S race was the WORST!!!

                        HA!!
                        Here are the 1k splits:
                        1k Koech 2:55.40
                        2k Lomong 5:56.70
                        3k Alamirew 8:42.95
                        4k Gebremeskel 11:16.47
                        5k Farah 13:41.66

                        That's under 5:00 for the last 2k. What isn't amazing about that?
                        That's a very good finish. BUT note the following:
                        Athens 2004. Final 2K in 5:02 in a race that was 27 sec. faster overall.
                        Bekele's last WR. Average 2K in 5:03 in a race that was 64 sec. faster. Note Bekele ran 2.5 x 2K at that pace, without stopping.

                        Comment


                        • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                          Hey, I didn't use just Pre's name. Here's a few more: Bayi, Chapa, Rono, and some high school runners I've watched. Often out front, making it a hard race for all.

                          Comment


                          • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                            Originally posted by Alan Shank
                            Originally posted by catson52

                            A strange filter indeed. Were the heats that challenging? - I don't think so. When we look at all time greats in the 5K, El G must be way up there. Few races at that distance, but a canny runner, always up to challenges, fast pace or slow. This, in addition to general recognition as one of the 2-3 greatest 1500/mile runners of all time.
                            Do you know that El G actually LOST all but one of his 5K races? And the one he won (Oly 2004) was his slowest of his major races? He ran a 13:46 for 3rd back in 1992 in Seoul. He didn't run it again until 2003, and was beaten by Saif Saaeed Shaheen 12:48xx to 12:50xx. Then he lost that great WC race to 18-year-old Eliud Kipchoge, but beat Bekele for silver in 12:52.83. Finally, he got in the 'W' column in Athens, with Bekele 2nd and Kipchoge 3rd, 13:14.xx. After being beaten in the 5 twice when doubling back from the 10, Bekele eschewed the double until Beijing and Berlin, finally "getting it right".

                            It's all great stuff, in my book!
                            Cheers,
                            Alan Shank
                            Won-loss record may not look too good. This was definitely his second best (Oly) distance. How many other runners claim two Championship race defeats of a fit Bekele? El G's PR at this distance is I believe better than the NR of all but 3 or 4 countries in the world. And his time goes back to 2003.

                            Comment


                            • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                              Originally posted by DrJay
                              Hey, I didn't use just Pre's name. Here's a few more: Bayi, Chapa, Rono, and some high school runners I've watched. Often out front, making it a hard race for all.
                              Save Bayi in Christchurch, when did any of those guys do it in a major international final? I don't know that they didn't, but they're all before my time so I may just not know. To be honest, what folks really seem to want is someone willing to be a sacrificial lamb. For every Rudisha there are way more Montanos and Grays.

                              Comment


                              • Re: ¶2012 OG: m5000–Mo Farah 13:41.66 wins 5/10 double

                                Originally posted by KevinM
                                Originally posted by DrJay
                                Hey, I didn't use just Pre's name. Here's a few more: Bayi, Chapa, Rono, and some high school runners I've watched. Often out front, making it a hard race for all.
                                Save Bayi in Christchurch, when did any of those guys do it in a major international final? I don't know that they didn't, but they're all before my time so I may just not know. To be honest, what folks really seem to want is someone willing to be a sacrificial lamb. For every Rudisha there are way more Montanos and Grays.
                                Depends on the distance. Here are some of the top of my head.
                                Elliott in 1960 OG, 1500, led from about 700 m onwards.
                                Kuts in both the 10 and 5 K in Melbourne, essentially all the way.
                                Juantorena in Montreal 800, led all the way, except for about 100m at around 400 m.
                                BCG 5K in 1974. A real battle between Jipcho and Foster (leading) almost all the way. Final time, very close to WR.
                                Keino 68 1500. Led from about 700m to the finish.

                                I am sure there are quite a few more.

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