¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

[jazzcyclist]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

Forget the Vo2 thing. It is more red blood cells that do not have to travel below the knees.

I understand that his heart doesn't have to work as hard as non-handicapped runners, but if the cardiovascular engine of non-handicapped 400 runners never redlines during a race, what difference does it make?

EDIT: Here's an analogy. Driving a racecar requires upper body strength but I don't think Danica Patrick is at a disadvantage because she doesn't have as much upper body strength as the men.

[pickle47]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

A wonderful race, but I still think this record "should" be lower. It is .2 sec lower than what it was in the late '90s. So while DR may be AOTY to many, this is not the POTY.

[Marlow]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

A wonderful race, but I still think this record "should" be lower. It is .2 sec lower than what it was in the late '90s. So while DR may be AOTY to many, this is not the POTY.

Ooooh, POTY musings. To me (so far) it's

Men
1. 9039
2. 1:40.8
3. 36.8

Women
1. 40.8
2. 21.6
3. 6955

[Master Po]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

A wonderful race, but I still think this record "should" be lower. It is .2 sec lower than what it was in the late '90s. So while DR may be AOTY to many, this is not the POTY.

Ooooh, POTY musings. To me (so far) it's

Men
1. 9039
2. 1:40.8
3. 36.8

Women
1. 40.8
2. 21.6
3. 6955

So the 1:40.91 is already history? Are you suggesting that a mere 1:40.91 gets no POTY consideration, or do you have a(nother) premonition about what's coming up for Rudisha, Marlow? :wink:

As for me, not sure how I would choose between these.

[jazzcyclist]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

A wonderful race, but I still think this record "should" be lower. It is .2 sec lower than what it was in the late '90s. So while DR may be AOTY to many, this is not the POTY.

Ooooh, POTY musings. To me (so far) it's

Men
1. 9039
2. 1:40.8
3. 36.8

Women
1. 40.8
2. 21.6
3. 6955

The two relay records don't belong in the same discusion with the individual performances IMO, especially the 800 and Decathlon records. Rudisha and Eaton expanded the boundaries of what was thought to be humanly possible and broke records that were considered tough to break. But everyone knew that the relay records were soft and that the reason they hadn't been broken had nothing to do with the lack of footspeed and everything to do with poor execution.

IMO, the Rudisha/Eaton equivalents of the relay records are:

Men: (4 x 9.80) - 3.00 = 36.20s

Women: (4 x 10.80) - 3.00 = 40.20s

[j-a-m]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

The two relay records don't belong in the same discusion with the individual performances IMO, especially the 800 and Decathlon records.

One reason I consider the women's relay record greater than Rudisha's is that there are fewer opportunities to achieve them. As it stands, only OG and WC offer a realistic chance. 800m runners, on the other hand, have many more opportunities to achieve a record.

[jazzcyclist]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

The two relay records don't belong in the same discusion with the individual performances IMO, especially the 800 and Decathlon records.

One reason I consider the women's relay record greater than Rudisha's is that there are fewer opportunities to achieve them. As it stands, only OG and WC offer a realistic chance. 800m runners, on the other hand, have many more opportunities to achieve a record.

I disagree with your premise and your logic.

1) Global Champiomships aren't the only time national 4x100 relay teams get to compete against each other. They do it at the Penn Relays, and a couple of meets on the circuit before and after the Olympics and World Championships. It is true that national teams don't have as many opportunities as 800 runners but they do have more opportunities than Decathletes and Heptathletes.

2) I don't judge a record's worthiness by the frequency of opportunities to break it. I judge it by the difficulty in breaking it. I had always felt that both the men's and women's 4x100 records were soft, especially the women's record. For example, the 2008 Jamaican women had more footspeed than this year's American team (43.32 vs 43.65), but they only managed 42.24 in the heats before DNF'ing in the final. In this year's heats, the U.S. put a team on the track that had nearly a second less footspeed (44.20) than the 2008 Jamaican women, but they still managed to run 41.64. And even the 2009 Jamaican team (43.44) that won worlds only ran 42.06 in the finals despite also being faster than this year's American team. My point is that I considered the 4x100 records soft for the same reason that I consider the 300 record soft. It's because the folks with the ability to push that record to the limits of what's humanly possuble never made a serious attempt to do so. Instead they showed up at global championships and ran conservatively, DQ'ed or DNF'ed.

[mal]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

The two relay records don't belong in the same discusion with the individual performances IMO, especially the 800 and Decathlon records.

One reason I consider the women's relay record greater than Rudisha's is that there are fewer opportunities to achieve them. As it stands, only OG and WC offer a realistic chance. 800m runners, on the other hand, have many more opportunities to achieve a record.

Not true.

Santa Monica broke relay records frequently.

And to agree with another, the strength of a record has zero to do with the opportunity to break it.

[telf]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

by jazzcyclist » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:34 pm
.....I had always felt that both the men's and women's 4x100 records were soft, especially the women's record.

Good post and 100% agree re the softness of both records.

National teams, men and women, have been running negative 2.5s differentials for over 40 years i.e sum the 4 PBs/SBs minus 2.5s.

France and Cuba have regularly got close to 3s differentials over the last few decades which is what I would expect for really slick, well practiced exchanges.

I think the men's record has been due a sub-37 for a few years since the arrival of Bolt.

The sub-41 women's performance was a tremendous performance but it's what you get when you assemble 43.5s aggregated 100m SBs and have good baton passes.

[gibson]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

A wonderful race, but I still think this record "should" be lower. It is .2 sec lower than what it was in the late '90s. So while DR may be AOTY to many, this is not the POTY.

without heats , and a couple of rabbits to take rudisha to 600m in 1:14 flat we could see the
record fall to 1"40 flat. or even just under.

i.e. drafting for 400m at that pace will take off 1 second as compared to no drafting.

we do have a big problem however. i have never seen rudisha draft properly off anyone, even his own hand picked guy.

and it ain't complicated, just run directly behind the rabbit. not 2 meters astray.
oh, well, at least cyclists get it.

[proofs in the pudd'in]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

Forget the Vo2 thing. It is more red blood cells that do not have to travel below the knees.

Sweet, let's cut off some arms - that will help! :P

[j-a-m]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

1) Global Champiomships aren't the only time national 4x100 relay teams get to compete against each other. They do it at the Penn Relays, and a couple of meets on the circuit before and after the Olympics and World Championships. It is true that national teams don't have as many opportunities as 800 runners but they do have more opportunities than Decathletes and Heptathletes.

Penn Relays are (unfortunately) too early in the season, so that athletes aren't near their peak form yet. Opportunities just before and just after the major championships are rare, and it's difficult to get the best four runners together. And even then, the best tend to focus on the individual races at the meets. In addition, in a relay all four have to be on top of their game at the same time.

[jazzcyclist]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

Symmonds gives a candid assessment of himself and admits that he didn't believe he had sub-1:43 ability.

“At one point, I’m crushed and devastated because I don’t have a medal,” the Oregon Track Club Elite athlete said. “But on the other hand, I’m like, what have I just done here?

“I did something that I personally thought I would never, ever humanly be able to do. I’m left with these weird mixed emotions. I need a good pint right now.”

He also feels that he ran the perfect race.

“To lose to the greatest 800-meter runner ever in the history of the world doesn’t hurt that bad,” said Symmonds, who was also part of Rudisha’s world-record race in Rieti, Italy, in 2010.

“I’m just honored to be in the race with him, honored to have seen something like that unfold, and the way the crowd reacted when they saw the time. ... I executed my race plan to perfection, and it was good for fifth, that’s what it is. I can sleep tonight knowing I did everything I could.”

http://www.registerguard.com/web/sports ... l.html.csp

[justcallmev]

Re: ¶2012 OG: m800–David Rudisha 1:40.91 WR !!!

Ato Boldon was just interviewed by Dan Patrick and he called the men's 800 his favorite moment of the Olympic track and field program. He said that despite the fact that he never ran the 800, he didn't see anything else on the track that compared. I'm sure the javelin competition must have warmed his heart too, but that was for sentimental reason.

FYI - Rudisha's WR run got a mention on Sportscenter as one of the top 10 sporting performances of the year (#4, ahead of Usain Bolt). A pleasant surprise since TnF is rarely acknowledged on these kind of lists!

Side note: I think the anchors were more excited about his run than the NBC team doing the play by play :lol: