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Is The 800m a Sprint?

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  • #61
    Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

    [quote=j-a-m]
    Originally posted by "Conor Dary":38gy0u13
    It is probably closer to 6 seconds for pure anaerobic power. Astrand and Rodahl estimate that even in a 100 meter sprint 85% is anaerobic and the rest aerobic.
    Yeah, that's what I thought, even though I didn't remember the specific numbers; even the "real" sprints, 100 and even more so 200, have an aerobic component. And for the 400 it's probably about 50/50 (again, don't remember the exact numbers). So the question is, what percentage of anaerobic do we require to call something a sprint?[/quote:38gy0u13]

    As I mentioned earlier, A&R states that from the 100 up the amount of aerobic power involved increases steadily to about 50/50 for a 2 min all out effort, i.e. an 800. So call a sprint anything that uses more anaerobic than not and we are back where we were at the beginning.

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    • #62
      Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

      When I was coaching, as a Type 2 fun exercise we would individually try to run as far as possible on a track without taking a breath. It was rare for anyone to go much past 200 meters. There was strategy involved, and maybe even tactics.

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      • #63
        Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

        Originally posted by Helen S
        When I was coaching, as a Type 2 fun exercise we would individually try to run as far as possible on a track without taking a breath. It was rare for anyone to go much past 200 meters. There was strategy involved, and maybe even tactics.
        200 meters (20-25 seconds) is where I put the cutoff. It may be that 100 and 200 runners use aerobic power becuase its available, not necessarily because they need it. Your coaching experiment would seem to explain why elite male swimmers don't breathe in the 50-meter freestyle. In swimming, breathing slows you down, but in track it doesn't. Surely male swimmers would take in oxygen during the 50 free if they thought it would help their performance, but they've evidently come to the conclusion that the time lost getting that extra oxygen outweighs whatever marginal performance benefit they might recieve.

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        • #64
          Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

          Originally posted by jazzcyclist
          I'm familiar with these concepts but my point that is that for efforts of less than 20 seconds, aerobic energy is not required, I wasn't trying to get the minutia of the different types of non-aerobic power.
          Well, as I pointed out that is not true. Aerobic and anaerobic are well defined terms. And explain why Bolt will never run a 2:04 marathon and Hall will never run 9.63.

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          • #65
            Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

            [quote=Conor Dary]
            Originally posted by jazzcyclist
            I'm familiar with these concepts but my point that is that for efforts of less than 20 seconds, aerobic energy is not required, I wasn't trying to get the minutia of the different types of non-aerobic power.
            Well, as I pointed out that is not true. Aerobic and anaerobic are well defined terms.[/qyote]
            What's not true? That male swimmers don't breathe during the 50 free? Unless you're refuting that claim, all your other claims are irrelevant to the point I'm making.

            Originally posted by "Conor Dary":jegp0vkp
            [And explain why Bolt will never run a 2:04 marathon and Hall will never run 9.63.
            [/quote:jegp0vkp]
            Shouldn't this be under another thread titled "Fast Twitch Muscle vs Slow Twitch Muscle"?

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            • #66
              Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

              [quote=jazzcyclist]
              Originally posted by Conor Dary
              Originally posted by jazzcyclist
              I'm familiar with these concepts but my point that is that for efforts of less than 20 seconds, aerobic energy is not required, I wasn't trying to get the minutia of the different types of non-aerobic power.
              Well, as I pointed out that is not true. Aerobic and anaerobic are well defined terms.[/qyote]
              What's not true? That male swimmers don't breathe during the 50 free? Unless you're refuting that claim, all your other claims are irrelevant to the point I'm making.

              Originally posted by "Conor Dary":1scj6oln
              [And explain why Bolt will never run a 2:04 marathon and Hall will never run 9.63.
              Shouldn't this be under another thread titled "Fast Twitch Muscle vs Slow Twitch Muscle"?[/quote:1scj6oln]

              It is all the same.

              This is a well studied subject. But if you want to keep it as a half baked discussion where nonsense gets tossed in, fine.

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              • #67
                Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                Originally posted by Conor Dary
                It is all the same.

                This is a well studied subject. But if you want to keep it as a half baked discussion where nonsense gets tossed in, fine.
                I don't know what your problem is, but I'm not interested in these silly semantics games. Also, let me remind you of rule #14 of the forum guidelines:

                This isn't a personal message board. If you want to get into a 2-person debate—particularly when you are highjacking a thread—please take it off-line.

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                • #68
                  Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                  Originally posted by Conor Dary
                  As I mentioned earlier, A&R states that from the 100 up the amount of aerobic power involved increases steadily to about 50/50 for a 2 min all out effort, i.e. an 800. So call a sprint anything that uses more anaerobic than not and we are back where we were at the beginning.
                  Yeah, that's the percentage I was looking for. So the 800 is a borderline sprint then, I guess...

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                  • #69
                    Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                    If the discussion is about what is a sprint or distance race that is one thing. Keep it at that if you want. But when you throw around well defined terms with nonsense, well what can I say?

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                    • #70
                      Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                      Rudisha seems to treat the 800m like a sprint....
                      8-)
                      My heart is still in the Caribbean....

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                      • #71
                        Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                        Originally posted by shivfan
                        Rudisha seems to treat the 800m like a sprint....
                        8-)
                        That is my impression too..
                        Any continuous pace that I could not maintain for 100 meters is a sprint.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                          dash=sprint=in lanes all the way
                          run- not in lanes all the way.
                          Indoors in MSG(remember that quaint venue) you ran a 400 m run and outdoors you were in a 400m dash.

                          more and more I see a version of running that is a jog, a run and a dash all in one- I call it -- junsh

                          jog 11 laps- run one lap dash your ass off 1/2 lap = the 5000m junsh.
                          Tom Hyland:
                          "squack and wineturtle get it"

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                          • #73
                            Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                            Originally posted by shivfan
                            Rudisha seems to treat the 800m like a sprint....
                            8-)
                            Actually, I'd argue exactly the opposite: he's so in control of himself that he never truly seems to be going all out, which is precisely what sprinting is.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                              Originally posted by kuha
                              Originally posted by shivfan
                              Rudisha seems to treat the 800m like a sprint....
                              8-)
                              Actually, I'd argue exactly the opposite: he's so in control of himself that he never truly seems to be going all out, which is precisely what sprinting is.
                              True. The apparent effortlessness of Rudisha, compared with the all out effort of Bolt in the 100.

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                              • #75
                                Re: Is The 800m a Sprint?

                                Originally posted by Conor Dary
                                True. The apparent effortlessness of Rudisha, compared with the all out effort of Bolt in the 100.
                                Bolt looks quite effortless to me, running away from a world class field, and cruising the last few steps...

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