7% solution?

[runninfool]

Kenny Moore's review of The Perfect Mile in Sports Illustrated May 24 says a runner drafting on a leader does about 7% less work because "the air stays parted." For Moore, this becomes the major factor in Bannister's breaking the barrier.

This seems high -- and could it really hold as an average for an entire race (which would be something like a 16-second differential for a 4-minute mile), with runners both going into and away from any ambient breeze? I'm sure this figure comes from somewhere -- but there are just too many front-run fast races to think that suddenly the leader is giving away 4 seconds a lap to his chasers! Tell me what I'm missing --

If I've missed a recent thread on this, just refer me there --

Also, is Moore right to think that Santee could have been a part of the Perfect Mile in Vancouver? That was the British Empire Games -- I wasn't aware that those not within the Empire could compete.

[Asterix]

Re: 7% solution?

I think there are several things missing here. For one, when you (or Kenny Moore) says that the drafter "does about 7% less work", it is NOT the same as 7% faster/slower. Work is the power output over time and not linearly related to actual running speed (working 7% harder might only give you an extra second/lap at best, depending on the speed you are running and what percentage of your maximum that speed is).

Trying to come up with some form of assistance conversion therefore, is rather tricky (to say nothing of difficult to definitively determine). For some rough guides, have a look at the sprint wind conversions at http://desert.jsd.claremont.edu/~newt/t ... index.html

Just for an example, pick the mens 100m (run entirely with a tailwind, which is essentially what you are trying to model with a full lap run in a drafting position). Enter a time of 15s (which extends to a 4 minute 1600, almost a mile) and a wind speed of 6.7m/s (4mph, which we'll assume is 100% drafting efficiency being in the 'parted' air).

With a sea level altitude, this gives a converted time of 15.41s. Timewise, this is just about 2.7%, a far cry from the 7% time assistance you seem to have posited. Extended to the full mile (well, 1600m), and you're getting 4:06.5. Taking the inverse, this theoretically suggests that someone running effort for a 4:06 mile, could run 4 flat by perfectly drafting behind a rabbit the entire way.

However, taking even just the fact that 'perfect' drafting is impossible, it is easy to discern that such levels of assistance are not realistic. I would say far more benefit is gained by not psychologically having to dictate the pace than by any wind effects.

[tafnut]

Re: 7% solution?

The 7% number is worthless for the very reasons you give. Even a second a lap would surprise me, and then what you do with that advantage in the end is also undeterminable. Drafting IS a good thing, but look how many super times have been run by people who forced the pace. And, in drafting, how close do you have to be? Right behind? within 2 yards? What's the help in mid-pack? TOO many variables. That said, there is no doubt that Webb's following a big pacesetter MUST have helped him. Best guess is that was maybe a mid 3:36 by himself, but, of course, that's a total WAG. At least I admit it.

[runninfool]

Re: 7% solution?

Thanks for this guidance. Though I admit I'm not looking at your tables and perhaps grasp only partially your calculations, I get the point.

In fairness to Moore, it does appear that perhaps what he's saying (I'm not trying to say anything myself) is that the drafter does 7% less work in overcoming the wind resistance, which in itself takes 10% a lead runner's energy. So we're focused only on that 10% of the whole effort in running a mile at 4-minute pace -- and if the drafter exerted 7% less effort on that 10%, we're talking about an advantage of .007 rather than .07, which means an advantage of 1.6 seconds rather than 16 seconds. This makes more sense, if I have it right. Since Moore was writing for a lay audience, it would have been helpful for him to explain this a little better -- at least for those of us too dumb to get it at first.

[runninfool]

Re: 7% solution?

tafnut, could Santee have run in the Empire Games race, even if not a citizen of an Empire country?

[runninfool]

Re: 7% solution?

tafnut, could Santee have run in the Empire Games race, even if not a citizen of an Empire country?

[tafnut]

Re: 7% solution?

"tafnut, could Santee have run in the Empire Games race, even if not a citizen of an Empire country?"

Are you confusing me with someone else? I never addressed that issue.

I would assume the answer is no. We speak the same language, but I think that little ruckus in 1776 kept them from inviting us.

[kuha]

Re: 7% solution?

I'm pretty confident the answer is NO, that Santee could not have gotten an invitation to run at Vancouver. It's a shame there wasn't an Olympics in '54 instead of '52/'56.

[gh]

Re: 7% solution?

At that time it was the British Empire Games; as a former part of the Empah......

Note that anybody who asks can get in these days. To wit, Maria Mutola of Mozambique.

[Bob Bettwy]

Re: 7% solution?

Yes, but imagine the Brits reply if we asked to enter in Melboure 2006!

[mike renfro]

Re: 7% solution?

And we don't speake the same language. Some of the Brits speak English, some speak in tongues (Geordies, Scots, eg), we in the US speak some variation of Merican, the Candians speak Canadjan, eh, etc.

[tafnut]

Re: 7% solution?

what? I don't understand a word of that!

[runninfool]

Re: 7% solution?

Note that anybody who asks can get in these days. To wit, Maria
>Mutola of Mozambique.


According to "infoplease" (a website): In Nov. 1995 Mozambique was the first non-former British colony to become a member of the British Commonwealth.

I'm pretty sure that you've got to be a Commonwealth citizen to get into those games. Which would have been true in 1954, for the Empire, which means Moore was wrong in thinking Santee could have competed in Vancouver. He says that Santee was denied leave from the Marines to compete in the race, so maybe a special invitation had been made, given his prominence.

[Asterix]

Re: 7% solution?

>Note that anybody who asks can get in these days. To wit, Maria
>Mutola of Mozambique.

And then there is La Francophonie, who hold their games every 4 years or so and apparently open their memberships to any country which Napolean passed through one afternoon 200 years ago like Poland or Romania (to say nothing of the multiple personalities allowed for some countries, like two from Belgium and three from Canada).
http://www.pch.gc.ca/progs/ai-ia/fi-if/ ... t_e.cfm#05

How many countries actually have some french usage:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... /2098.html

[tandfman]

Re: 7% solution?

The inane idea that Santee could possibly have entered the Empire Games was mentioned in the Bascomb book, although it's likely that the author was simply repeating what Santee or one of his supporters recalled. Perhaps they did think at the time that this American might possibly enter that race.

Nonsense, of course. It could never have happened and anyone who thought to the contrary at the time was delusional.