bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

[doug5321]

18 year old albert rop 7:35 for 3000 and 13:01 for 5000
19 year old abraham rotich 1:43.13 for 800
25 year old benson seurei 3:31.61 for 1500

[batonless relay]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

18 year old albert rop 7:35 for 3000 and 13:01 for 5000
19 year old abraham rotich 1:43.13 for 800
25 year old benson seurei 3:31.61 for 1500

Way to go Bahrain! But they should go raid Jamaica for 100/200 sprinters, they may be able to put together a 4x1 and 4x4 (not unprecedented...Brandon Simpson).

[Marlow]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

18 year old albert rop 7:35 for 3000 and 13:01 for 5000
19 year old abraham rotich 1:43.13 for 800
25 year old benson seurei 3:31.61 for 1500

Way to go Bahrain! But they should go raid Jamaica for 100/200 sprinters

Awesome idea!!!!

[exdrake]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

FEW THINGS IN OUR SPORT SICKEN ME MORE THAN THIS CONCEPT.

The fact it is allowed may be one of them though.

[batonless relay]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

FEW THINGS IN OUR SPORT SICKEN ME MORE THAN THIS CONCEPT.

The fact it is allowed may be one of them though.

It actually doesn't go far enough. Athletes should be able to compete immediately for their new countries (even if they've participated as seniors) with no waiver needed from previous national federation. To have waiting periods for athletes is to have an outside organization create second-class citizenships for your nationals. Why aren't more countries up in arms that IOC, FIFA and IAAF haven't removed this sickening clause that stops athletes from competing for their nation?

[Pego]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

FEW THINGS IN OUR SPORT SICKEN ME MORE THAN THIS CONCEPT.

The fact it is allowed may be one of them though.

It actually doesn't go far enough. Athletes should be able to compete immediately for their new countries (even if they've participated as seniors) with no waiver needed from previous national federation. To have waiting periods for athletes is to have an outside organization create second-class citizenships for your nationals. Why aren't more countries up in arms that IOC, FIFA and IAAF haven't removed this sickening clause that stops athletes from competing for their nation?

Yes, you would be right, if it, indeed, were "their nation." In fact, many of them are just issued a passport and stay as "citizens" until their career is over or until a conflict arises, commonly not even setting a foot in their "adopted country.". With your concept, there would ultimately be no true national identity of the sports. Some people would say, it should be that way, but under current concept of competing for a nation, the national identity has value.

[batonless relay]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

FEW THINGS IN OUR SPORT SICKEN ME MORE THAN THIS CONCEPT.

The fact it is allowed may be one of them though.

It actually doesn't go far enough. Athletes should be able to compete immediately for their new countries (even if they've participated as seniors) with no waiver needed from previous national federation. To have waiting periods for athletes is to have an outside organization create second-class citizenships for your nationals. Why aren't more countries up in arms that IOC, FIFA and IAAF haven't removed this sickening clause that stops athletes from competing for their nation?

Yes, you would be right, if it, indeed, were "their nation." In fact, many of them are just issued a passport and stay as "citizens" until their career is over or until a conflict arises, commonly not even setting a foot in their "adopted country.". With your concept, there would ultimately be no true national identity of the sports. Some people would say, it should be that way, but under current concept of competing for a nation, the national identity has value.

But "national identity" consists of certain values and if those values include buying/renting/influencing athletes from other countries then other countries need to learn to respect that. It would be there way, no? Plus, do you really want to endorse the British use of the ugly term "plastic"?

Each nation has laws that govern who is and who isn't a citizen and it's up to that country, not the sporting community, to determine who should represent them. The current system is not too different than partial apartheid where instead of color of skin we're using original origin or duration with a waiting period to exclude athletes from competing. And, why should ANOTHER country be able to pick a country's team? Which is what happens when a country has to get a waiver.

[Pego]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

Each nation has laws that govern who is and who isn't a citizen and it's up to that country, not the sporting community, to determine who should represent them.

The libertarian in me would like to agree, but I abhor mercenary attitude toward citizenship. When Italy naturalized a bunch of Canadian hockey players just for the duration of the OG's made me see red.

[batonless relay]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

Each nation has laws that govern who is and who isn't a citizen and it's up to that country, not the sporting community, to determine who should represent them.

The libertarian in me would like to agree, but I abhor mercenary attitude toward citizenship. When Italy naturalized a bunch of Canadian hockey players just for the duration of the OG's made me see red.

Is it really any different than nationalizing...I don't know...Europeans to create a nuclear bomb? Or the current push for foreign students NOT to return to the land of their births and start companies in the US? Sports, business, war...how are they different again? :wink:

[Pego]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

[quote=batonless relay]

Each nation has laws that govern who is and who isn't a citizen and it's up to that country, not the sporting community, to determine who should represent them.

The libertarian in me would like to agree, but I abhor mercenary attitude toward citizenship. When Italy naturalized a bunch of Canadian hockey players just for the duration of the OG's made me see red.

Is it really any different than nationalizing...I don't know...Europeans to create a nuclear bomb? Or the current push for foreign students NOT to return to the land of their births and start companies in the US? Sports, business, war...how are they different again? :wink:[/quote:2e4p1pt5]

Yes, at times being a cynic would be an attractive option .

[aaronk]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

Let's talk national records.

I'll use Wilson Kipketer as my first example, even though there were several others who came earlier who could be used.

He moves from Kenya to Denmark, and immediately CRUSHES the Danish record for the 800. (And other distances?? The 1000??)
Hell, why not move to some tiny island nation where the record is 2:05??
Why don''t some B level Americans (46 second 400 guys.....4:02 milers......61 foot shot putters, etc etc) move somewhere where they could get the NR in their sleep??

It's unfair to the NATIVES of a country...when a "RINGER" moves in...and immediately wipes out years, decades, maybe a century or more of history and effort!!

I say: allow them to move anywhere, and to compete for that new nation...BUT.....to set a National Record in their new country, they must have been a FULL TIME RESIDENT for at least FIVE YEARS!!!

Otherwise, this (3 elite runners moving to Bahrain) will occur again and again....and having a "National Record"....will become pretty meaningless.

[aaronk]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

ADD: There could be an alternative way to handle NR's for new citizens.

Have TWO records.....
one for NATIVES of that country.
one for "new citizens".....until they reach that 5 year residency requirement I stated in the previous post.

We do it here....sort of.

In the CR area, we list the overall CR, but if it's not held by a full citizen of the US, we append the label "AmCR".
Sort of like what we do with altitude-aided records.

[TN1965]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

Each nation has laws that govern who is and who isn't a citizen and it's up to that country, not the sporting community, to determine who should represent them.

Every country can decide who is and is not a citizen of their country any way they want, but whether other countries have to recognize that is another question. (The former is about the rights and duties within a country, the latter is about whether a person is recognized as a citizen of a country outside of the national border.)

See Liechtenstein v. Guatemala (aka Nottebohm case) 1955 I.C.J. 4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottebohm_ ... atemala%29

[batonless relay]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

Each nation has laws that govern who is and who isn't a citizen and it's up to that country, not the sporting community, to determine who should represent them.

Every country can decide who is and is not a citizen of their country any way they want, but whether other countries have to recognize that is another question. (The former is about the rights and duties within a country, the latter is about whether a person is recognized as a citizen of a country outside of the national border.)

See Liechtenstein v. Guatemala (aka Nottebohm case) 1955 I.C.J. 4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottebohm_ ... atemala%29

Good point, and though I'm not using the quoted information to dispute your point. I found this also under nationality on wikipedia

Article 15 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states that "Everyone has the right to a nationality," and "No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality."

If no one can be deprived the right to change his nationality under Article 15, and no can be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality, then isn't it a deprivation of that nationality if you can't enjoy all the rights of citizenship? (though naturalized US citizens can't be US president)

[Pego]

Re: bahrain picks up 3 standouts.

then isn't it a deprivation of that nationality if you can't enjoy all the rights of citizenship? (though naturalized US citizens can't be US president)

Quite a few countries impose a lot stricter restrictions on naturalized citizens than prohibiting them from being a head of state. In Andorra, you have to wait several generations (two or three, I think) before you could own property there. Other countries dictate/prohibit where the immigrant may or may not live etc. I won't even venture into potential legal hassles as TN1965 cited associated with dual citizenship/multiple residencies/several citizenships in a row.