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Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

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  • Bob Bettwy
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    >I havn't been to Walnut for a few years, but they had an outer water jump at my
    >last trip, and thus a funny finish line. Early on, they just used hand timing,
    >but later they had electronic. I think they put a second camera at the steeple
    >finish. But, I could be wrong. At any rate, it is possible to obey the rules.
    >And hand timing in distance events is still legal for records. Unless that
    >has changed.

    Mt. SAC is an inside water jump and finishes on the opposite side of the track. Until recently, that meant hand times. Now they use a second camera.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    >I am absolutely positive
    >that 1 can
    >always be divided by 5. I am also absolutely positive that any
    >engineer can
    >survey the the track for these measurements down to the fraction
    >of an inch
    >before construction of the water barrier.

    >You're assuming
    >significant foresight by the track engineer--which is not always the case.

    I've worked closely with enough architects and engineers during my life to have seen this dozens of times. However, in this case, the engineer can only be as competent as the people who hired him.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    >I havn't been to Walnut for a few years, but they had an outer water jump at my


    Penn Relays, as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • mike renfro
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    I havn't been to Walnut for a few years, but they had an outer water jump at my last trip, and thus a funny finish line. Early on, they just used hand timing, but later they had electronic. I think they put a second camera at the steeple finish. But, I could be wrong. At any rate, it is possible to obey the rules. And hand timing in distance events is still legal for records. Unless that has changed.

    Leave a comment:


  • RMc
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    >>I believe it is sometimes almost impossible
    >to have the barriers evenly
    >spaced and still not have a barrier before the
    >finish line on the first lap,
    >unless you move the finish line.

    I am absolutely positive that 1 can
    >always be divided by 5. I am also absolutely positive that any engineer can
    >survey the the track for these measurements down to the fraction of an inch
    >before construction of the water barrier.

    You're assuming significant foresight by the track engineer--which is not always the case.

    I am also absolutely positive that
    >if, somehow, in the case of massive incompetence all around, the finish line
    >can be moved.

    Not if the race is to be electronically timed. The finish line has to be set in a single spot unless the meet management wants to spend significant time moving the timing devices. Not likely.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    >I believe it is sometimes almost impossible
    >to have the barriers evenly spaced and still not have a barrier before the
    >finish line on the first lap, unless you move the finish line.

    I am absolutely positive that 1 can always be divided by 5. I am also absolutely positive that any engineer can survey the the track for these measurements down to the fraction of an inch before construction of the water barrier. I am also absolutely positive that if, somehow, in the case of massive incompetence all around, the finish line can be moved.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob Bettwy
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    With an outside water jump, the starting line is almost always on the home straight-away with the race being 7 laps + some 60-80 meters.

    Depending on the dimensions of the track and the water-jump, the first barrier can be anywhere at the end of the first starightaway. At UCLA, it is about 6 inches past the common finish line. At tracks where it is past the finish line, there is no problem with the NCAA rule.

    At Northridge, the barrier falls 5 meters before the common finish line. If they were to striclty abide by NCAA rule, the athletes would hurdle the final barrier just 5 meters before the finish. In fact, on a track with different dimensions, it is conceivable to have the athletes hurdling into finish line.

    I think they need to amend the rules to accomodate this.

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    >It seems rather odd that anyone would dare put a barrier in front of the finish line in the first place.<

    I believe it is sometimes almost impossible to have the barriers evenly spaced and still not have a barrier before the finish line on the first lap, unless you move the finish line. But with fixed automatic timing equipment and an otherwise uniform finish line, nobody wants to move the finish line for this one race. Somthing's gotta give, and if the run up to the first barrier isn't too short, ignoring the IAAF/NCAA rule may be the best alternative.

    I should add that this problem seems be more of an issue with tracks with exterior water jumps than with others.

    Leave a comment:


  • malmo
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    It seems rather odd that anyone would dare put a barrier in front of the finish line in the first place. Who was the one who did this? He must have a name? Stand up and be counted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bob H
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    Unlike the IAAF and the NCAA, USATF rules expressly recognize that there are different track designs and water jump placements. The USATF rules omit any requirement that there be no hurdles between the start of the race and the finish line on the first lap. Thus, Katy Trotter's performance in that same race will be eligible for acceptance as an American Junior Record, assuming everything else is in order.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1-2-Go
    replied
    Re: Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    Tack så mycket!

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    started a topic Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    Nilsson CR In Steeple---Or Was It?

    Northridge setup is such that the IAAF/NCAA rules are bent, in that there's a hurdle before the finish line on the first lap, which there isn't supposed to be. So her mark may not get ratified as a Swedish Record. NCAA doesn't ratify CRs, but T&FN isn't going to let a minor quirk like that stand in the way. She cleared all 28 barriers and we see no way any material advantage was gained.
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