how about a fantasy 1200?

[ridge004]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

Adjusted for their eras, I would also have enjoyed seeing these guys take a crack at it: Rick Wohlhuter, Herb Elliott, and Mike Boit.

[norunner]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

I've often though a major late-season big meet should go with all 'off' distances - think of all the WR assaults they could hype:

100, with cameras at 40y, 50y/m, 60y/m.
300
600
1200
2000

Short Hurdles with multi-distance cameras
300H (200H en route)

I'd think the hype would be easy to generate.

Did you know that a german team ran a new 4x4 hurdles world record a couple of weeks ago? You didn't? So much for generating hype about weird distances. And i guess "new" is not an accurate description for that WR either since it was also the very first WR for that discance. And in case anyone wants to break it, they ran 3:33.49 .

[gh]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

wouldn't be the first WR: U.S. university teams have run a few of those in the past.

[aaronk]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

I've often though a major late-season big meet should go with all 'off' distances - think of all the WR assaults they could hype:

100, with cameras at 40y, 50y/m, 60y/m.
300
600
1200
2000

Short Hurdles with multi-distance cameras
300H (200H en route)

I'd think the hype would be easy to generate.

Did you know that a german team ran a new 4x4 hurdles world record a couple of weeks ago? You didn't? So much for generating hype about weird distances. And i guess "new" is not an accurate description for that WR either since it was also the very first WR for that discance. And in case anyone wants to break it, they ran 3:33.49 .

How would you run that?
All in lanes??
Where....and when...would you break in??
That would entail each lane starting WAYYYY behind the other!!

[Brian]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

And so they go to the line, the Fantasy All-Time 1200 meter racers: Sebastian Coe, Jim Ryun, Joaquin Cruz, Alberto Juantorena, Mike Boit, Ivo Van Damme, Wilson Kipketer, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Steve Ovett.

Runners who--with the exception of Juantorena, who is himself the exception to just about anything, and Kipketer, born at altitude and had seemingly unlimited potential at 800m. and beyond before forever compromised by malaria--have run fast over 800 meters and have miler stamina.

All in their prime, all having trained just for this effort.

[Others (Steve Cram, Said Aouita, Noureddine Morceli) deserving, but only nine lanes.]


So who wins?

My money, pragmatic sentimentalist that I am, would have been on Van Damme, had he lived for two more seasons of development. But never count out Coe.
.

[Tuariki]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

And so they go to the line, the Fantasy All-Time 1200 meter racers: Sebastian Coe, Jim Ryun, Joaquin Cruz, Alberto Juantorena, Mike Boit, Ivo Van Damme, Wilson Kipketer, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Steve Ovett.

Runners who--with the exception of Juantorena, who is himself the exception to just about anything, and Kipketer, born at altitude and had seemingly unlimited potential at 800m. and beyond before forever compromised by malaria--have run fast over 800 meters and have miler stamina.

All in their prime, all having trained just for this effort.

[Others (Steve Cram, Said Aouita, Noureddine Morceli) deserving, but only nine lanes.]


So who wins?

My money, pragmatic sentimentalist that I am, would have been on Van Damme, had he lived for two more seasons of development. But never count out Coe.
.

The 1200 is between the 800 and the 1500/1 mile. The last time I checked there is only one athlete (post WWII) that won Olympic Gold at 800m and 1500m. And for good measure he also set world records at 800m/880y, 1000m and 1 mile. So how he does not appear on your dream list is interesting,especially when you have Ryun on there.

Also,based on their respective competitive records, I can't fathom out how you can justify the inclusion of Boit and Van Damme and exclude John Walker..

[booond]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

And so they go to the line, the Fantasy All-Time 1200 meter racers: Sebastian Coe, Jim Ryun, Joaquin Cruz, Alberto Juantorena, Mike Boit, Ivo Van Damme, Wilson Kipketer, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Steve Ovett.

Runners who--with the exception of Juantorena, who is himself the exception to just about anything, and Kipketer, born at altitude and had seemingly unlimited potential at 800m. and beyond before forever compromised by malaria--have run fast over 800 meters and have miler stamina.

All in their prime, all having trained just for this effort.

[Others (Steve Cram, Said Aouita, Noureddine Morceli) deserving, but only nine lanes.]


So who wins?

My money, pragmatic sentimentalist that I am, would have been on Van Damme, had he lived for two more seasons of development. But never count out Coe.
.

The 1200 is between the 800 and the 1500/1 mile. The last time I checked there is only one athlete (post WWII) that won Olympic Gold at 800m and 1500m. And for good measure he also set world records at 800m/880y, 1000m and 1 mile. So how he does not appear on your dream list is interesting,especially when you have Ryun on there.

Also,based on their respective competitive records, I can't fathom out how you can justify the inclusion of Boit and Van Damme and exclude John Walker..

Snell was one of the first I thought of. Van Damme might not make the "B" race.

[Brian]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

And so they go to the line, the Fantasy All-Time 1200 meter racers: Sebastian Coe, Jim Ryun, Joaquin Cruz, Alberto Juantorena, Mike Boit, Ivo Van Damme, Wilson Kipketer, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Steve Ovett.

Runners who--with the exception of Juantorena, who is himself the exception to just about anything, and Kipketer, born at altitude and had seemingly unlimited potential at 800m. and beyond before forever compromised by malaria--have run fast over 800 meters and have miler stamina.

All in their prime, all having trained just for this effort.

[Others (Steve Cram, Said Aouita, Noureddine Morceli) deserving, but only nine lanes.]


So who wins?

My money, pragmatic sentimentalist that I am, would have been on Van Damme, had he lived for two more seasons of development. But never count out Coe.
.

The 1200 is between the 800 and the 1500/1 mile. The last time I checked there is only one athlete (post WWII) that won Olympic Gold at 800m and 1500m. And for good measure he also set world records at 800m/880y, 1000m and 1 mile. So how he does not appear on your dream list is interesting,especially when you have Ryun on there.

Also,based on their respective competitive records, I can't fathom out how you can justify the inclusion of Boit and Van Damme and exclude John Walker..

[The obvious answer is that this is something I came up with at the computer, and not the product of hours/days of painstaking research.]

That said, Peter Snell should at least have been in my "also" group.

Thought of Walker--one of my personal favorite athletes of all time--but, as he himself has admitted many times in print, his basic speed isn't/wasn't as fast as many of his contemporaries. Simply didn't think he could keep up, as at the Golden Mile in Oslo in 1979; even at peak in 1975 (before injury) his best 800m. was 1:44, run only once in an optimal setting (Christchurch, 1974).

I was basing my picks on raw physical ability, not competitive records.

As far as a list of pure competitors, Walker--and Herb Elliot--would have been front and center.

Boit ran 3:49--as fast as Walker--and was consistently faster over 800 meters. As noted above, a big part of the Van Damme entry is speculation on his potential.

And others could/should be argued, perhaps (Wohlhuter, Scott).

That's what makes this fun. Thanks, gh!
.

[br]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

Wohlhuter has to be in the mix.

[hc10003]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

Great in his prime, and I've always thought under-appreciated, I believe Abdi Bile merits consideration (numerous champs/honors at 1500 and 143.x at 800). And in the US only division, Don Paige.

[Brian]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

I suppose the case could be made that anyone under 3:30 in the 1500m. should be included. That would add another 9 or 10. But at 3:26.34, Bernard Lagat should at least be in the mix, too, I guess.
.

[26mi235]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

Except that the 1500 was Lagat's lower bound, it seems. I do not think he has many good 800s, especially for someone with a 3:26.

[Powell]

Re: how about a fantasy 1200?

longtime reader was blown away by Kiprop's 2:45.91 in Monaco (see story on front page) and wonders who might win an idealized race at that distance.

El G's 3:26.00 works out to just below 55 secs per lap, so just by running evenly at that pace, he'd be sub-2:45 for 1200 (2:44.80 to be exact). I guess he'd have been at least a couple of seconds faster if 1200 had been the full distance.