¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

[Per Andersen]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

i still don't get his passing on 2.44. at that point, he ws behind barshim, and had the youngster cleared 2.44, what would he jump then? bondar. would have to break the WR to win this...

uakari nails it .. I really think there is allot of bluff in the Ukrainian. He is a great jumper dont get me wrong but I have never seen him jump in a way that made me think the WR was within reach.... that was not the case with Ukhov, who really did get off the ground in a way that made 2.45 seem doable. Is it possible that Barshim has more potential for 2.45 than Bondar.

I don't get this. Did Bondarenko bluff his way over 2.41, twice? He was better in 2013 than Ukhov ever was. Bondarenko is very different from ukhov. Bondarenko rotates better while Ukhov lets his legs hang down before he starts un-arching. I prefer Bondarenko's technique. Ukhov has only cleared 2.40 once, a couple of years ago indoors, never outdoors.
I'm not ruling out Ukhov but he regressed from 2012, has been at it for a long time so he might simply have stagnated now. He will be 28 next year. Barshim more potential than Bondarenko?
Who can tell at this time?

Uakari was wrong when he wrote that Bondarenko was behind Barshim when the bar went to 2.44. Bondarenko was leading having cleared 2.41 while Barshim did not clear, had one miss and then passed to 2.44 where he had only 2 attempts on a height 4cms over his PB. Thus not an outrageous pass by Bondarenko on 2.44.

[user4]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

i still don't get his passing on 2.44. at that point, he ws behind barshim, and had the youngster cleared 2.44, what would he jump then? bondar. would have to break the WR to win this...

uakari nails it .. I really think there is allot of bluff in the Ukrainian. He is a great jumper dont get me wrong but I have never seen him jump in a way that made me think the WR was within reach.... that was not the case with Ukhov, who really did get off the ground in a way that made 2.45 seem doable. Is it possible that Barshim has more potential for 2.45 than Bondar.

[Marlow]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

Drouin said that after he cleared 2.38 (new Canadian record) and was in the medals he needed to re-focus and felt he was not close at 2.41 but he still felt it gave him confidence that 2.41 was doable for him.
Why should we doubt Bondarenko when he said he was in pain and did not want too many jumps?
From what I understand he's not sure he can or will compete more this year.

Interesting Drouin article on home-page. Excerpt:

Ukhov hardly jumped, or did much exercise at all, for months after winning Olympic gold.
Bondarenko had just ONE jumping training session all year.
Drouin spends just as much time hurdling, shot putting and long jumping as he does high jumping. “I refrain from doing repetitive motions all the time and this has helped me not to get hurt. By practising the other events I can translate that speed to takeoff and my entire body is always active and getting a good workout. I can’t foresee changing this approach any time soon.” In 2013, he regularly competed in the 60m hurdles (PB 7.98) and 110m hurdles (PB 14.04)

[Per Andersen]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

i still don't get his passing on 2.44. at that point, he ws behind barshim, and had the youngster cleared 2.44, what would he jump then? bondar. would have to break the WR to win this...

I think his passing on 2.38 was a bigger gamble. Besides, Barshim had a miss on 2.41 before passing so the chances for Barshim clearing 2.44 were not that great.

There were also ideal conditions so Bondarenko decided it was worth it going for an all time WR in the HJ during a World Championship.

[uakari]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

i still don't get his passing on 2.44. at that point, he ws behind barshim, and had the youngster cleared 2.44, what would he jump then? bondar. would have to break the WR to win this...

[bobguild76]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

I want to say that reading this thread is a bit like reading the threads for the multi-events; and that is meant a a very high compliment. There are so many contributors here that really have things to say and do so without acrimony. Thank you! For some reason, I got burned out just after the multis during this WC; this is helping me get my T&F equilibrium back.

Same here. Well said.

[26mi235]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

I want to say that reading this thread is a bit like reading the threads for the multi-events; and that is meant a a very high compliment. There are so many contributors here that really have things to say and do so without acrimony. Thank you! For some reason, I got burned out just after the multis during this WC; this is helping me get my T&F equilibrium back.

[Per Andersen]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

I forgot to mention that the "slower and lower" technique also goes usually together with stronger (i.e., "double") arm actions, and wider path of the lead leg.

If you go to extremes of either super-fast and very high, or very slow and super low you will have problems. You need a compromise between these two extremes. Just where exactly depends on the individual.

Holm, of course, was unique. Very fast but also quite low compared to Barshim and Bondarenko.
But his inside arm was already raised at take-off and his outside arm was only jerked upwards to about mid chest.

[JRM]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

Im a litle tired to hear to some athletes to tell that they are injuried when they gets amazing things.

Well, it's certainly better than their fans making up injuries (or "wet tracks") to justify perceived-sub-par performances.

[Dietmar239]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

Minimal speed loss compared to many double-arm take-off jumpers.

This aspect of the HJ and TJ fascinates me. Do Taylor and Claye lose speed at take-off? Do the big double-arm HJers really lose speed? It doesn't look like it, but perspiring minds want to know. I'm a big double-arm advocate, but I need to know if the science backs it up too. In my coaching courses, I never get a clear answer. (Controllable) Speed at take-off is so important.

Some are able to maintain their speed fairly well despite the double arm lift. Sjoberg and Sotomayor come to mind. Then there are some one-arm jumpers that learned to crush the plant without an overabundance of speed. Pakin was a good example of this. He wasn't as fast as some (at least to the eye), but his lead leg staying bent and thrusted powerfully, enabled him to convert well to the vertical. Point is, none of the elite are purely extreme in either regard. As Suso mentioned, most blend styles a bit.

Bondarenko is a bit of a hybrid. He uses double arm lift, like Soto, Sjoberg and many others but during the layout he use one arm trajectory like Mogenburg or Jimmy Howard. However, as we all know, the run up is the most important part of the high jump. His speed, all the way thru the penultimate step, is likely the prime factor in his 2.41+ skills.

[Marlow]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

Minimal speed loss compared to many double-arm take-off jumpers.

This aspect of the HJ and TJ fascinates me. Do Taylor and Claye lose speed at take-off? Do the big double-arm HJers really lose speed? It doesn't look like it, but perspiring minds want to know. I'm a big double-arm advocate, but I need to know if the science backs it up too. In my coaching courses, I never get a clear answer. (Controllable) Speed at take-off is so important.

[Suso2]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

I forgot to mention that the "slower and lower" technique also goes usually together with stronger (i.e., "double") arm actions, and wider path of the lead leg.

If you go to extremes of either super-fast and very high, or very slow and super low you will have problems. You need a compromise between these two extremes. Just where exactly depends on the individual.

[Suso2]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

Loss of speed during the takeoff phase is not a problem. You SHOULD lose horizontal speed while you generate vertical speed. In fact, if you lose very little horizontal speed during the takeoff phase, it tells you that there is a problem, that you are not using the run-up speed properly for achieving vertical speed.

The options are:

(a) go super fast and high at end of run-up
or
(b) go slower but also lower

Both options are in principle OK, but some people do better with "a" and others do better with "b".

I think Barshim is also fairly high at the end of the run-up, and very fast. Paradoxically, he gets that big speed with only something like 4 or 6 running steps (I forget exactly how many), but those few true running steps are preceded by many little steps in which his speed seems to get bigger than you might expect. Unorthodox, but perfectly good technique in this regard. It's funny, Brian Brown, one of the fastest high jumpers that we ever analyzed (8.6 m/s) also had very few running steps. He just "put the pedal to the metal" from very early onvery early, and so he got a lot of speed in fewer steps than the other jumpers.

[Per Andersen]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

Per, I just downloaded Bondarenko's 241 jump from Youtube. He seems moderately fast in the run-up. Since tall guys generally seem to be slower than they really are (I think we tend to use the athlete's body as a scale!), my guess is that he has pretty good speed at the end of the run-up. Has rather little lowering in the penultimate, and single-arm takeoff action. This combination may be compensated OK by his speed. Nice vertical position at end of takeoff. Modest arch over the bar. Good timing of the un-arching. So overall (and based on very limited information and very low quality video!) I'd say he has a decent technique, but nothing super-special. The height he jumped, of course, is wonderful, and he seems to have still higher heights in him. Yes, I think Soto's record may be in danger.

Technique-wise, combining men and women, my favorite is by far Chicherova --even though she did not jump very high here by her usual standards.

Thanks, Suso2. Nice to see confirmation of things I have observed. Will study and compare his penultimate to,say, Barshim. So Bondarenko does many things well but nothing exceptional technically. I think his single-arm movement is similar to Holm's. Minimal speed loss compared to many double-arm take-off jumpers.

[gh]

Re: ¶2013 WC—mHJ: Bondarenko 7-10¾ (2.41) (WL=)

thou art forgiven my son: say 10 Hail Nebiolos and you are absolved.