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  • a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

    Did you understand this thread's title?
    I meant that this thread will use Mary Cain as its example, but the subject could be about ANY track athlete with the record Mary Cain possesses at age 17.

    The front page article tells us she's considering about 8 colleges, and that Salazar will offer his advice, if asked.
    This tells me that Cain IS going to attend college, but doesn't give much clarity as to whether she'll compete in collegiate races, as a member of her selected college's team!!
    So the question becomes:
    What are the pro's (pun sort of intended! :P ) or con's of such a scenario?

    Pro's
    1. She'll be a member of a team again!
    2. The camaraderie of being a team member, the friendships, the team workouts, etc.
    3. Being able to break EVERY Collegiate Record from 800 through 5000 in her freshman year!!
    4. Probably having a deal wherein Salazar can continue to be her coach!
    5. Being able to run in "elite" meets (DL's, Stanford, Oxy, Boston & Millrose indoor) as well as collegiate meets, but allowing her to limit her collegiate races.

    Con's
    1. So good, there would be limited, if no, competition in her collegiate races, except possibly at the NCAA's!
    2. Possible jealousy of team members who don't like her "elite" status.
    3. She'd most likely be working out with NOP women rather than her collegiate teammates, so "team" feeling wouldn't be as strong.
    4. What REAL use to her team would she offer?? How many team points would she score?
    5. There would always be the doubt that she would REMAIN a team member! "Will she turn Pro tomorrow??"

    I guess these considerations have been discussed before, but I'm hoping you believe I've offered up some different approaches......and questions...about a possible collegiate racing career for Mary Cain.....or people like her!!

    Have at it!!

  • #2
    Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

    Originally posted by aaronk
    The front page article tells us she's considering about 8 colleges, and that Salazar will offer his advice, if asked.
    Vegas odds:
    Oregon - 1:5
    Stanford - 5:1
    the field - 99:1

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

      Originally posted by aaronk
      Probably having a deal wherein Salazar can continue to be her coach!
      5. Being able to run in "elite" meets (DL's, Stanford, Oxy, Boston & Millrose indoor) as well as collegiate meets, but allowing her to limit her collegiate races.
      I really enjoy watching Mary Cain race, but I don't understand the concept of her running in the Diamond League while in college. What if she wins a Diamond league race, there would be prize money there. Wouldn't that be a violation of NCAA rules?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

        Originally posted by athleticshushmail
        I really enjoy watching Mary Cain race, but I don't understand the concept of her running in the Diamond League while in college. What if she wins a Diamond league race, there would be prize money there. Wouldn't that be a violation of NCAA rules?
        Not if she doesn't accept the money.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

          Originally posted by Marlow
          Originally posted by aaronk
          The front page article tells us she's considering about 8 colleges, and that Salazar will offer his advice, if asked.
          Vegas odds:
          Oregon - 1:5
          Stanford - 5:1
          the field - 99:1
          Vegas would be out of business if they posted those odds. I think there's an excellent chance that she'll choose an Ivy League school or the equivalent in the East and stay closer to home than she would be at either Oregon or Stanford. Then she could easily choose not run for her school's team, as she's now doing in high school.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

            yeah, I note there's nothing said about whether or not her college choice is linked in any way to for whom she will run. My totally uninformed guess would be that she never runs a competitive step in the uniform of any university.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

              Originally posted by gh
              yeah, I note there's nothing said about whether or not her college choice is linked in any way to for whom she will run. My totally uninformed guess would be that she never runs a competitive step in the uniform of any university.
              Meaning she'd be fresh for the summer campaigns and have time to study when in college. Sounds like a win-win for her.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                Originally posted by tandfman
                Originally posted by Marlow
                Originally posted by aaronk
                The front page article tells us she's considering about 8 colleges, and that Salazar will offer his advice, if asked.
                Vegas odds:
                Oregon - 1:5
                Stanford - 5:1
                the field - 99:1
                Vegas would be out of business if they posted those odds. I think there's an excellent chance that she'll choose an Ivy League school or the equivalent in the East and stay closer to home than she would be at either Oregon or Stanford. Then she could easily choose not run for her school's team, as she's now doing in high school.
                I agree. I think she goes to Princeton. Her personality is such that she always goes for the top...athletics or academics. I will be surprised if she goes to Oregon. For the first two years I could see her just running on the XC team and running Invitational Track meets the rest of the year and then going Pro after that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                  Originally posted by tandfman
                  Vegas would be out of business if they posted those odds. I think there's an excellent chance that she'll choose an Ivy League school or the equivalent in the East and stay closer to home than she would be at either Oregon or Stanford. Then she could easily choose not run for her school's team, as she's now doing in high school.
                  Originally posted by gh
                  yeah, I note there's nothing said about whether or not her college choice is linked in any way to for whom she will run. My totally uninformed guess would be that she never runs a competitive step in the uniform of any university.
                  That's the $64K Q, isn't it? Will she run for the college she attends? Will she try to be near home, or near Salazar?
                  My even more totally uninformed guess is that she goes west (hence the Vegas odds) and DOES run for the college, at least for the first year. There's absolutely ZERO guarantee that she'll ever run ONE SECOND faster than she did/does as a HSer. Everyone knows that, so why not get situated in a place near your coach and see how it goes? If she continues to improve in 2014-15, THEN you can leave the team, transfer any where you wish and finish college as a professional runner. Just from what I know about the parents, I do not think they are steering her to go pro this young.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                    Originally posted by ExRun
                    Originally posted by tandfman
                    Originally posted by Marlow
                    Originally posted by aaronk
                    The front page article tells us she's considering about 8 colleges, and that Salazar will offer his advice, if asked.
                    Vegas odds:
                    Oregon - 1:5
                    Stanford - 5:1
                    the field - 99:1
                    Vegas would be out of business if they posted those odds. I think there's an excellent chance that she'll choose an Ivy League school or the equivalent in the East and stay closer to home than she would be at either Oregon or Stanford. Then she could easily choose not run for her school's team, as she's now doing in high school.
                    I agree. I think she goes to Princeton. Her personality is such that she always goes for the top...athletics or academics. I will be surprised if she goes to Oregon. For the first two years I could see her just running on the XC team and running Invitational Track meets the rest of the year and then going Pro after that.
                    I don't know what her level of interest is in running cross country.......in high school or college....or even professionally!
                    She ran some CC in 2012 (losing to Sarah Baxter!!), but that was BEFORE she went on her record-breaking rampage, and reached a level that put her on the WC team!!
                    She's basically an 800-1 mile runner now....with a couple of longer races thrown in (the indoor 2 mile and the outdoor 5K).
                    If she chooses to continue with her TRACK career at the same level as she reached in 2013, I would think CC would extend her season too long, and take away from her success on the track!!
                    The article even said she'll be working on her form, and readying for an "extensive" indoor campaign!!
                    That sounds like there will be no cross country this year!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                      Originally posted by aaronk
                      I don't know what her level of interest is in running cross country.......in high school or college....or even professionally!
                      She ran some CC in 2012 (losing to Sarah Baxter!!)
                      Baxter is the prototypical CC runner - great strength (could be a Steepler on the track)
                      Cain is the prototypical track runner - great tempo and kick.
                      CC for Cain is a great strength builder, even if it's not her 'strength' (unintentional word-play).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                        If I was a college coach, I probably wouldn't show interest in offering her a scholarship. Its almost certain she won't run a full 4 years before going pro, so why not offer the opportunity to someone I know will stay and I could actually develop.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                          Originally posted by ATK
                          why not offer the opportunity to someone I know will stay and I could actually develop.
                          All sorts of reasons!
                          1. No need to 'develop' Cain.
                          2. If Cain leaves, that frees up the scholarship for a new person.
                          3. While you do have Cain, she'll represent your school very well.
                          4. Her presence will attract other top runners.
                          5. Boosters will come out of the woodwork to contribute to your (suddenly high-profile) team.
                          6. You'll look like a great coach for having brought her to your campus.
                          etc., etc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                            Cain is also likely to score more points in one year than any "prospect" would in 4, and could be the difference in winning a national title (and that's in all 3 phases of the sport).

                            On the list of priorities for college coaches, "developing talent" isn't even in the same ball park as the mandate to score points at the Conference/Regional/National level. It's what keeps them their jobs in most places. (unfortunately)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: a NON-Mary Cain Mary Cain thread

                              Originally posted by gh
                              "developing talent" isn't even in the same ball park as the mandate to score points at the Conference/Regional/National level.
                              Hence the giving away of hard-to-get scholarships to foreign students who are already developed and can win big points right away. Many a great college coach has been seduced to the Dark Side of foreign recruiting, preferring to get older foreign ringers than give a promising young American prospect the time to develop. When I am annointed Despot-for-Life in charge of the NCAA, foreign athletes may still be recruited, but they will score zero points at the Conference and NCAA level. Then we see how how much the lip-service for "international diversity" is worth.

                              Comment

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