Regional format criticized

[gh]

Re: Regional format criticized

Rumor has it that the Stanford SID office was blown away at the (large) number of credential requests received.

Also talked to Bob Fraley of Fresno State last night, who said "it's all about perception." (Fraley, recall, gave up his $93,000 salary in exchange for the school not killing track)

By that, he meant that coincidentally he had been chatting with the university president who had asked, by way of being friendly, "how many kids you taking to Regionals?" and when Bob said "20" the president said, "20?! And we're thinking of cancelling your sport?!"

[Bob H]

Re: Regional format criticized

>I'm looking forward to a good meet this week, where team scores will be kept between some of the best teams from the SEC, Big 10, and MAC. I'll get to see the best distance runners from Eastern Michigan and Arkansas go at it (Desilets v
Lincoln, Cheboiywo v Cragg).<

One important aspect of the regionals that remains to be seen is how the athletes and teams treat these meets. Are Desilets and Lincoln going to exert themselves to win and become a regional champion, or will they think of the meet solely as a qualifying competition for the nationals. If it's the latter, you could see them behave the way they would in a heat--the two of them 40 meters ahead of everyone else and jogging the last lap because they're both assured of the only thing they came for--qualification for the nationals. But if beong a regional champion is perceived by the runners to have meaning (and it should), then there really could be some wonderful competition this weekend. I guess we'll know more soon enough.

[BillVol]

Re: Regional format criticized

Tennessee, like most big
>schools, complains about the regionals. But what
>do they bring to the table in the way of
>enjoyable track meets? Certainly not the Sea Ray
>Relays.

I understand what you're saying. I enjoy Sea Ray because it is at my school and because I am proud of the track tradition at Tennessee. And there is usually some great action -- even if you have to be a track junkie to appreciate it.

But normally when I'm in the stands, my head is churning thinking of ways the meet could be so much better.

SR usually produces world class results (although this past year it seemed like the results were not as good as usual). But even if they mixed the Volunteer Relays (big HS meet) with it and had crowds approaching those of Texas Relays, it still would have something missing. Watching ten heats of the 100 m dash does get to be a bit too much. Especially when I think I could beat some of the guys in the tenth heat. ;-)

But how to have an exciting track meet is, of course, not a problem unique to Sea Ray. We'll see how the Regionals work out. It should be interesting -- and those fans lucky enough to see them in person are in for some great action.

[BillVol]

BTW, dl...

Do you have any suggestions on how to improve Sea Ray? How is Sea Ray different from Texas, Penn, Drake, Mt. SAC, etc., as far as organization of the meet? I'd be very interesting in reading your comments.

[Jefferson Buffalo]

Re: BTW, dl...

>Do you have any suggestions on how to improve Sea
Ray? How is Sea Ray different from Texas, Penn,
Drake, Mt. SAC, etc., as far as organization of
the meet? I'd be very interesting in reading
your comments.<

How is Sea Ray different from Penn? That's like asking how a chair is different from a hippopotamus. They're not at all comparable.

[BillVol]

Re: BTW, dl...

I'm talking more about format and organization than the huge stadium and crowds.

I'm sure those are different, too. But how? Thanks!

[Guest]

Re: Regional format criticized

>important aspect of the regionals that remains
>to be seen is how the athletes and teams treat
>these meets. Are Desilets and Lincoln going to
>exert themselves to win and become a regional
>champion, or will they think of the meet solely
>as a qualifying competition for the nationals.
>If it's the latter, you could see them behave
>e the way they would in a heat--the two of them
>40 meters ahead of everyone else and jogging the
>last lap because they're both assured of the only
>thing they came for--qualification for the
>nationals. But if beong a regional champion is
>perceived by the runners to have meaning (and it
>should), then there really could be some
>wonderful competition this weekend. I guess
>we'll know more soon enough.

To the average fan (those whom the powers that be are hoping to attract), it doesn't matter. American pro sports are geared around scoring a lot of points/runs/goals and the only thing John Q. Fan understands about "amateur" sports are things like finishing in the top places to qualify. This is why the Olympic Trials are always so popular to the common viewer: finish in the top three, you go to The Games. No occaisional fan understands a scenario where the guy winning the race doesn't go on but the guy finishing third does because he ran a faster time earlier in the season. Why am I bothering to watch this? could be the legitimate question asked.
Regionals--finish in the top five to get to the NCAA "Olympics." Any fan can get into that concept!

[gm]

Re: Regional format criticized

Thanks for making it so clear, Steve. Now I can e-mail GH and tell him to quit putting all those damn times, heights and distances in TN. It's all about places, so I sure don't need to be reading that useless other information.

[blacklily]

Re: Regional format criticized

I'm a track fan & I'm "bitching" about the new format. So are most people who I know. I'm not a coach, I'm not a track official, I'm not or didn't used to be a collegiate athlete, nor am I a parent of one. College track meets are arguably already too long. Why make nationals 40% bigger with lesser talents? If regionals was all that in terms of spectatorship & publicity, then cross-country regionals would all that. It's not. The previous system was hardly perfect, but this one is more problematic. What was needed was more marketing savvy, not regionals!

[magpie]

Re: Regional format criticized

>Thanks for making it so clear, Steve. Now I can
>e-mail GH and tell him to quit putting all those
>damn times, heights and distances in TN. It's all
>about places, so I sure don't need to be reading
>that useless other information.

make sure to also tell him that medals should be given for fastest time of the year, not for coming in first on the right day. el g may be happy to know that he has a couple of mis-awarded golds coming his way. same for mamede, etc.

[magpie]

Re: Regional format criticized

>I'm a track fan & I'm "bitching" about the new
>format. So are most people who I know. I'm not a
>coach, I'm not a track official, I'm not or
>didn't used to be a collegiate athlete, nor am I
>a parent of one. College track meets are arguably
>already too long. Why make nationals 40% bigger
>with lesser talents? If regionals was all that in
>terms of spectatorship & publicity, then
>cross-country regionals would all that. It's not.
>The previous system was hardly perfect, but this
>one is more problematic. What was needed was more
>marketing savvy, not regionals!

why not both? admittedly, most of the promotion of t&f on u.s. soil is essentially ineffective. iirc (someone correct me if i have this wrong), the increase of field size was passed independently of (or was not contingent upon) the move to the regional format. also, implementation of the format has no direct effect on the length of any other track meets besides regionals and nationals. finally, to analogize cross with outdoor t&f is highly simplistic - do not compare kumquats to grapefruit. when was the last time world cross or u.s. cross nationals were broadcast in the u.s.?

[gm]

Re: Regional format criticized

>make sure to also tell him that
>medals should be given for fastest time of the
>year, not for coming in first on the right day.
>el g may be happy to know that he has a couple
>of mis-awarded golds coming his way. same for
>mamede, etc.

Drew, "do not compare kumquats to grapefruit."

I am quite certain El Guerrouj was awarded his spot on the Moroccan Olympic team based on his times, not his placings at the Moroccan Nationals.

[magpie]

Re: Regional format criticized

>>make sure to also tell him that
>medals should
>be given for fastest time of the
>year, not for
>coming in first on the right day.
>el g may be
>happy to know that he has a couple
>of
>mis-awarded golds coming his way. same
>for
>mamede, etc.

>"do not compare
>kumquats to grapefruit."

I am quite certain
>El Guerrouj was awarded his spot on the Moroccan
>Olympic team based on his times, not his placings
>at the Moroccan Nationals.

whomever:
maybe i misunderstood - what exactly does having marks listed in t&fn have to do with ncaa/wc/oly participant fields and subsequent fan interest, and vice versa? help me see this connection between cherries and watermelons . . . is that supposed to mean that fans would be more interested in a scenario which scraps the u.s. champs/trials as the determinant of u.s. teams for international competitions in favor of a system not unlike that of morocco, kenya, etc. where the t&fn performance lists determine who goes and who stays home?
at some point in the process certainly qualifying marks would be necessary for determining participants, but is it necessarily the best route to do so to directly fill fields at a championship meet, all things considered, especially when no other way has been tried in recent memory? while i believe that the regional system for the ncaa holds great potential, i am indeed skeptical on how effective it will end up being at both ensuring a quality meet and drawing fan interest - i am just not ready to immediately damn it before ever seeing a decent set of resultant data, either.

[Guest]

Re: Regional format criticized

i like the idea, but the format sounds ridiculous as most athletes are in the east and mideast. i would rather see either the regionals or the conference meets cut. i bet most athletes in ten days will be barely hanging on and i am sure only the ones who started late or skipped a few meets will be able to compete at the usatf in 3 weeks.

[CoachKoby]

Re: Regional format criticized

You should come to the Florida Relays in March. It is a very exciting meet. you definitely won't be bored with this meet.