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  • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

    If Mike Rodgers was forced to run a 400 next week with no practice, what do you think his time would be?

    I'm going to guess somewhere between 46 and 47, even sans practice, as he's a 20.2 guy.
    Would that make him a "multi-talented sprinter" just by virtue of actually running a 400?

    Comment


    • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

      Originally posted by Dixon
      Originally posted by cladthin
      Originally posted by stylee10
      Originally posted by Dixon

      So what factor now becomes the most important in this decelleration phase?
      The most important factor, as I have shown repeatedly in this thread, is the peak speed from which you are decelerating.

      A 0.81 guy decelerating at a below-average rate (92% last ten meters) will beat a 0.85 guy decelerating at an above-average rate (98% last ten meters).

      For guys who have the same top speed, and are dead even at 80 meters, the one who decelerates less wins.
      Coach Dixon thinks he wins if you say his favorite two words no matter if you say that factor only contributes to, say 10-15% of the overall time. If you say that or all around or multi-talented you get a bingo!

      Coach Dixon has this thing about reality he goes with how things really are. Only multi talented sprinters have held the 200m WR in the last 50 years. A guy who runs all three sprints and both relays is a multi talented sprinter, Michael Rodgers is not.
      Coach Dixon has his own reality in a parallel universe. Max velocity is king in 100m-that's a fact.

      Comment


      • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

        Originally posted by stylee10
        I'm not ignoring Jimson Lee's analysis, I'm disagreeing with his conclusions. In fact, he sort of acknowledges what's really going on in the comments:

        "The point I was trying to make is:

        1) Bolt had the highest top end speed ever recorded
        2) Bolt didn’t slow down between 50-90m"

        Bolt split 0.82 in Beijing. That, alone, is sufficient to ensure victory, even if he literally throws his arms wildly outward and slows down to 0.90 in the last ten meters.
        The thing is there are tons and tons of similiar articles out there all talking about the importance of speed endurance in the 100/200m, ya want more? And I've been readng/hearing about this for years, my HS coach preached it, Bud Winter preached it, Glen Mills, Charlie Francis, Stephen Francis, Leo Davis, Tom Tellez, Clyde Hart have all talked about how important speed endurance is. So I think Il go with what they have said about it. I've experienced it myself, 0nce I started running the 400m my 100 got faster.

        Dennis Mitchell talked about his 400m training......we just ignore him, ignore my experience and all those great sprint coachs, I don't think so. Who do you coach?

        Comment


        • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

          Originally posted by stylee10
          If Mike Rodgers was forced to run a 400 next week with no practice, what do you think his time would be?

          I'm going to guess somewhere between 46 and 47, even sans practice, as he's a 20.2 guy.
          Would that make him a "multi-talented sprinter" just by virtue of actually running a 400?
          What if he could run that in leg 3 of a 4x 4 and that would give him a whole second drop in time? That would make him a true multi-talented, all around, Coach Dixon kind of guy if he could get in that sub 46 range.

          Speed Reserve would likely permit Rodgers to do just what you have suggested.

          Comment


          • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

            Did Dixon really reference Charlie Francis in a thread about people doing the 400m to improve their 200?? lol he would have flipped out on you if he was still alive.

            Comment


            • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

              Originally posted by stylee10
              I'm not ignoring Jimson Lee's analysis, I'm disagreeing with his conclusions. In fact, he sort of acknowledges what's really going on in the comments:

              "The point I was trying to make is:

              1) Bolt had the highest top end speed ever recorded
              2) Bolt didn’t slow down between 50-90m"

              Bolt split 0.82 in Beijing. That, alone, is sufficient to ensure victory, even if he literally throws his arms wildly outward and slows down to 0.90 in the last ten meters.
              And as it played out he dropped his arms around the 8 second mark and still won, easily. Max. V. is the key factor.

              Comment


              • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                Originally posted by Dixon
                And I've been readng/hearing about this for years, my HS coach preached it, Bud Winter preached it, Glen Mills, Charlie Francis, Stephen Francis, Leo Davis, Tom Tellez, Clyde Hart have all talked about how important speed endurance is
                Informal fallacy; appeal to authority.

                That being said, Charlie Francis said EXACTLY what I'm saying - that top speed in the 100 meters is by far the most important factor in the race, that the deceleration curves are similar for all top sprinters, and so forth. Cladthin & dustoff are laughing because what you're suggesting is absolutely antithetical to what Francis taught, and what most of those inspired by his coaching methods (Mills included) teach.

                You've abandoned the hard data and are now just throwing out names. Why not stick to the measurable, the stuff that we can actually compare?

                I put up the numbers. Read them.

                Comment


                • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                  Originally posted by dustoff
                  Did Dixon really reference Charlie Francis in a thread about people doing the 400m to improve their 200?? lol he would have flipped out on you if he was still alive.
                  When I read that my first thought was to post that he clearly does not know much about CF if he's using Charlie to support his position. Well, I guess I have now.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                    Originally posted by stylee10
                    If Mike Rodgers was forced to run a 400 next week with no practice, what do you think his time would be?

                    I'm going to guess somewhere between 46 and 47, even sans practice, as he's a 20.2 guy.
                    Would that make him a "multi-talented sprinter" just by virtue of actually running a 400?
                    Of course not.

                    Henry Carr....world ranked in all three sprints.
                    Tommie Smith...world ranked in all three sprints
                    Pietro Mennea...10.01/Oly200gold/Euro 400m champ/Oly 4x4
                    MJ....10.09/WR in the 200/400
                    Bolt...started off in the 400/has ranna ton of 400 and 4x4/100 and 200m WR

                    That's multi talented...you disagree?

                    Comment


                    • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                      Originally posted by Dixon
                      Originally posted by stylee10
                      If Mike Rodgers was forced to run a 400 next week with no practice, what do you think his time would be?

                      I'm going to guess somewhere between 46 and 47, even sans practice, as he's a 20.2 guy.
                      Would that make him a "multi-talented sprinter" just by virtue of actually running a 400?
                      Of course not.

                      Henry Carr....world ranked in all three sprints.
                      Tommie Smith...world ranked in all three sprints
                      Pietro Mennea...10.01/Oly200gold/Euro 400m champ/Oly 4x4
                      MJ....10.09/WR in the 200/400
                      Bolt...started off in the 400/has ranna ton of 400 and 4x4/100 and 200m WR

                      That's multi talented...you disagree?
                      So what if he split a 44.9 on the third leg, would that do it? What time would he need to split to reach your Pietro Mennea memorial multi-talented sprinter hall of fame?

                      Comment


                      • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                        Originally posted by cladthin
                        Originally posted by dustoff
                        Did Dixon really reference Charlie Francis in a thread about people doing the 400m to improve their 200?? lol he would have flipped out on you if he was still alive.
                        When I read that my first thought was to post that he clearly does not know much about CF if he's using Charlie to support his position. Well, I guess I have now.
                        I ws talking aout speed endurance in general there I assumed that was obvious. Yes Francis talks about it's importance.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                          Originally posted by Dixon
                          Originally posted by cladthin
                          Originally posted by dustoff
                          Did Dixon really reference Charlie Francis in a thread about people doing the 400m to improve their 200?? lol he would have flipped out on you if he was still alive.
                          When I read that my first thought was to post that he clearly does not know much about CF if he's using Charlie to support his position. Well, I guess I have now.
                          I ws talking aout speed endurance in general there I assumed that was obvious. Yes Francis talks about it's importance.
                          Yes, he talks about as top sprints coach would but Stylee's point (and Dustoff) is that CF's work completely supports what we are trying to get through to you but you don't want to know.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                            Originally posted by cladthin
                            Originally posted by Dixon
                            Originally posted by stylee10
                            If Mike Rodgers was forced to run a 400 next week with no practice, what do you think his time would be?

                            I'm going to guess somewhere between 46 and 47, even sans practice, as he's a 20.2 guy.
                            Would that make him a "multi-talented sprinter" just by virtue of actually running a 400?
                            Of course not.

                            Henry Carr....world ranked in all three sprints.
                            Tommie Smith...world ranked in all three sprints
                            Pietro Mennea...10.01/Oly200gold/Euro 400m champ/Oly 4x4
                            MJ....10.09/WR in the 200/400
                            Bolt...started off in the 400/has ranna ton of 400 and 4x4/100 and 200m WR

                            That's multi talented...you disagree?
                            So what if he split a 44.9 on the third leg, would that do it? What time would he need to split to reach your Pietro Mennea memorial multi-talented sprinter hall of fame?
                            He'd need to ancor his nations Olympic 4x4 team and win the European 400M Championship and run a 44,3 spit.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Usain Bolt and the 400m

                              Originally posted by cladthin
                              Originally posted by Dixon
                              Originally posted by cladthin
                              Originally posted by dustoff
                              Did Dixon really reference Charlie Francis in a thread about people doing the 400m to improve their 200?? lol he would have flipped out on you if he was still alive.
                              When I read that my first thought was to post that he clearly does not know much about CF if he's using Charlie to support his position. Well, I guess I have now.
                              I ws talking aout speed endurance in general there I assumed that was obvious. Yes Francis talks about it's importance.
                              Yes, he talks about as top sprints coach would but Stylee's point (and Dustoff) is that CF's work completely supports what we are trying to get through to you but you don't want to know.
                              When does it hit you that I don't need you to get it through to me, dude I was a sprinter...ok? I had a real coach, ok? I know sprinting and have read a ton of stuff about it. When will you get it through your head that without speed endurance what happens that first 70m means nothing? When do you drop all the bull and realize that only 100-400 sprinters have held the 200m WR? Why continue to ignore reality?


                              Dude, try dealing with facts, ok?

                              Comment

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