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EC 2014: Pre-Meet Open Topic Thread

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  • EC 2014: Pre-Meet Open Topic Thread

    I assume we'll have an event-by-event forum going by the time the meet starts, so let this serve meanwhile as a thread that encompasses all subjects concerning the European Championships of 2014.
    I'll start things off with my opinion (NOT formal prediction!) of which EC Meet Records CAN be broken IF.....
    1. the weather cooperates
    2. the athletes cooperate

    Number 2 should be obvious, but let me explain anyway.
    I'll give one example.
    Mo Farah is entered in both the 5000 and 10000.
    The MR's should be easy for Farah to break.
    13:10.15 and 27:30.99.

    But we all know (and I personally revile!!) that in Championship meets, athletes run for medals, not records.
    Too bad.
    Farah could get two for the price of one.....or 4 for the price of 2, as it were.
    Both MR's......AND......both Gold medals!

    On the front page, there's an article in which Paula Radcliffe basically challenges Farah to bring his best game to the EC's.......saying that David Rudisha competed at the CWG's in less than peak condition.
    Basically, she told him.......no excuses!!

    Good for her!!

    Anyway, here's the MR's I believe CAN be broken, given the above two conditions.
    The athletes entered have the PR's.
    The records are there for the taking.
    Who's going to step up?

    Following are the events and the MR's I think can be broken.

    Men
    100 (9.99)
    800 (1:43.84)
    1500 (3:35.27)
    5000 (13:10.15)
    10000 (27:30.99)
    Mar (2:10:31)
    3000SC (8:07.87)
    110H (13.02)
    HJ (7-8.75)
    PV (19-8.25) (Might be tough because Lavillenie hasn't been jumping high.)
    DT (225-11)

    Women
    1500 (3:56.91) (Both Hassan & Aregawi would really have to go for it!!)
    5000 (14:52.20)
    Mar (2:26:05)
    3000SC (9:17.57) (No really strong entrants, but record isn't that great!)
    PV (15-9)
    JT (222-4)
    HT (251-6)
    Last edited by aaronk; 08-05-2014, 05:32 AM.

  • #2
    Nobody gives a s*it about meeting records, especially the athletes, they want a title/medal. It would be stupid for Farah to go after fast times and exhaust himself when he can make some money at the DL meetings afterwards, where he is likely to run much faster anyway.

    Comment


    • #3
      Appreciate your initiating this thread, aaronk. I will respond to the first thing you brought up, which norunner has also responded to: assuming Farah is in form, I would be very surprised if he got the 5k MR, or even went near it. I know he can run lots faster than 13:10, but that mark is a healthy championship time, and adding the 10k double as a goal would also limit it. Note that in the history of the EC, only twice has the 5k gone faster than 13:22. I don't think that's just because it is a "lesser" meet. It is championship running. Jack buckner's 13:10 from 1986 was run in the context of having to beat Stefano Mei 13:11, Tim Hutchings 13:12, Evgeni Ignatov 13:13, & Antonio Leitao 13:17.67. Those marks are #1-4 & 6 in EC history. Dave Bedford had a 13:17.21 in winning 1974's race. What I notice also in looking at the EC 5k history is that the race is usually relatively close. Bedford won by about 6.5 seconds, which is a larger winning margin. Unless someone else goes at a very fast pace, a la 1986, I would expect Farah (or whomever) to do what is needed to win. Perhaps someone will challenge fast, but I doubt it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by norunner View Post
        Nobody gives a s*it about meeting records, especially the athletes, they want a title/medal. It would be stupid for Farah to go after fast times and exhaust himself when he can make some money at the DL meetings afterwards, where he is likely to run much faster anyway.
        Correct; there is always a bunch of fans who think that in major Champs athletes are actually interested in records.
        Rubbish of course, if you talk to the athletes they all say the same ; screw the records give me the medals. I always think that this hankering after records is one of the more fatuous aspects of fandom.

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        • #5
          The only people who think that athletes are more interested in records than the winning of a medal at a major championship are those who have never competed at such a level, and had a chance to win a medal. They are the armchair athletes sitting with their laptop and excel spreadsheets doing multiple filtering analyses of athletic performances; analyses which of course require record performances to make their past-time worthwhile.

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          • #6
            Tuariki - my thoughts as well - well said

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            • #7
              Originally posted by no one View Post
              Tuariki - my thoughts as well - well said
              And mine...
              I have friends that, when inquiring about my officiating junkets, their first question is, "Were there any records set."... In most cases, I don't know and if I did, they would not know the significance of any number I gave them.... kinda like that 18' 6"HJ reported the other day.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                The only people who think that athletes are more interested in records than the winning of a medal at a major championship are those who have never competed at such a level, and had a chance to win a medal. They are the armchair athletes sitting with their laptop and excel spreadsheets doing multiple filtering analyses of athletic performances; analyses which of course require record performances to make their past-time worthwhile.
                I might point out that the "mark snobs" folks among us, who really enjoy the lists and numbers may often gravitate toward being more fans of events where "tactics" are basically non existent and you run, jump or throw at maximum capacity. And if it takes some sort of record or really amazing mark to win, that is a really good combination.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                  The only people who think that athletes are more interested in records than the winning of a medal at a major championship are those who have never competed at such a level, and had a chance to win a medal. They are the armchair athletes sitting with their laptop and excel spreadsheets doing multiple filtering analyses of athletic performances.
                  So Paula Radcliffe was an armchair athlete, right? Coz she clearly didn't need to run 30:01 to win the Euro title in 2002, she ran to set a record.
                  Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Powell View Post
                    So Paula Radcliffe was an armchair athlete, right? Coz she clearly didn't need to run 30:01 to win the Euro title in 2002, she ran to set a record.
                    Bur Paula Radcliffe really only had one speed setting which she almost always used because even Helena Fibingerova could have beaten her in a sprint. No idea if she wanted to run a record in 2002 but my guess is her plan was to lose the competition so nobody could beat her over the last 400.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by norunner View Post
                      Bur Paula Radcliffe really only had one speed setting which she almost always used because even Helena Fibingerova could have beaten her in a sprint. No idea if she wanted to run a record in 2002 but my guess is her plan was to lose the competition so nobody could beat her over the last 400.
                      Of course, but to achieve that goal, she didn't need to win by 46.5 seconds. 10 would have been more than enough.
                      Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                      • #12
                        I do realize Radcliffe wasn't a typical case, and I absolutely agree it makes no sense for Mo to go for any records in Zurich. I was just reacting to Bennyg's and Tuariki's claims that athletes who are interested in setting records at championships do not exist. They may be a small minority, but still.
                        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Andrew Howe will not compete in Zurich, he's not recovered enough. Really sad.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Powell View Post
                            I do realize Radcliffe wasn't a typical case, and I absolutely agree it makes no sense for Mo to go for any records in Zurich. I was just reacting to Bennyg's and Tuariki's claims that athletes who are interested in setting records at championships do not exist. They may be a small minority, but still.
                            The Ratcliff and Mo cases are just about completely inverted. He has lots of championship hardware along with very good but not record times; he can finish with the best of all time. She has record times but was so often thwarted by others that could hang with her and then finish faster. Finally, was she doubling, with the 5000 to consider? She fits more into the category of the exception that illustrates the rule. That 10,000 might give her the best 10,000 ever run as well as the best marathon ever run.

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                            • #15
                              Mo's winning time will be determined not by him but by the likes of Tahri, Gabius and Vernon. They are the only ones who could set a sub-13:15 pace. However, they are highly unlikely to adopt such a risky tactic and probably all fancy their chances most if it comes down to a fast last 800.

                              BTW, it was Foster who won in 1974 and it was the presence of Viren that prompted him to set a fast pace (including a 60 second lap to break away).

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