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Will Kirani James break Michael Johnson's 400m world record??
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I used to think this guy was putting us on but now I believe he really is the most narcissistic person alive..and seems totally unembarassed about it and unaware he has become a bore..
I don't know what I am missing and maybe I am jaded but I am not impressed by a healthy young man of his dimension/weight, who trains has hard as he claims, running 53.35 (self handtimed) for 400 meters..Last edited by lonewolf; 12102014, 03:51 AM.
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Originally posted by bobguild76 View PostEvery athlete is unique. General principles are necessary . . . that's why we have coaching and institutional knowledge. But performances are more than mathematical formulae. How do you compare 200/400 mathematical equations between MJ, a 200/400 runner, and Alberto Juantorena, a 400/800 runner? Both had WRs in the 400 (granted, AJ's was a Low Altitude WR), but MJ never trained specifically for the 800, and AJ never trained specifically for the 200.
I'm intrigued by track400meters' comments about when MJ should have begun his sprint in the 400. Begun his sprint?! As in most 400s, his last 100 was the slowest of all . . . he simply maintained his form and turnover better than anyone else, which is why he seemed to be sprinting away from them.
Remember the WR 4x400 (1993?), when Butch Reynolds split the first 200 in 20.8, and MJ in 21.mid? Both ran superb relay legs, but in a manner uniquely suited too each one.
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Here's a video of him flexing
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Every athlete is unique. General principles are necessary . . . that's why we have coaching and institutional knowledge. But performances are more than mathematical formulae. How do you compare 200/400 mathematical equations between MJ, a 200/400 runner, and Alberto Juantorena, a 400/800 runner? Both had WRs in the 400 (granted, AJ's was a Low Altitude WR), but MJ never trained specifically for the 800, and AJ never trained specifically for the 200.
I'm intrigued by track400meters' comments about when MJ should have begun his sprint in the 400. Begun his sprint?! As in most 400s, his last 100 was the slowest of all . . . he simply maintained his form and turnover better than anyone else, which is why he seemed to be sprinting away from them.
Remember the WR 4x400 (1993?), when Butch Reynolds split the first 200 in 20.8, and MJ in 21.mid? Both ran superb relay legs, but in a manner uniquely suited too each one.
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Yes you are dreaming up figures. While such postulations make for interesting reading and provide good material for debate they are nonetheless formulae that are no more than one person's opinion unsupported by the laws of physic/nature/the universe or whatever other model one wants to choose; no matter how well thought out the formula.
As Bolt has also been a 400m runner/sprinter at times, I guess he should be running under 41
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I am not dreaming anything up. Look at the relative speeds of each of the pairs of distances  you will see that the speed ratio takes a jump at the 400/800 split (another occurs when energy systems switch between the marathon and half marathon). Speed is not the only limiting factor, and the faster the 200 speed is, the less likely a toplevel athlete will be able to maintain speed well going to the 400 because the change in the energy systems is also imposing a constraint.
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I can also dream up all sorts of formulae to prove any theory you want.
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One factor implicit in the formulas is the relationship between the 'dropoff' (the amount to add to the multiple of the 200 time) and the using up of you pure sprint fuel/energy. If you are faster than typical (e.g., Johnson's 19.32 and even 19.6), it is not just speed that is limiting you for the 400 but you also have to avoid burning all your sprint 'fuel' up and relying on aerobic power as well. To see that this matters, look at how few 400 guys can run a top 800 and look at how the ratio of 400 speed to 800 speed is higher than other related ratios (200 to 400, 800 to mile, 1500 to 3000). In these ratios there is a disconnect at the 400 to 800 because the fuel mechanism switches and it starts to switch before the 400 is done and thus is a reason for the 200to400 factor not working real well with the 400 runners that are really fast at 200m.
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Originally posted by track400meters View PostHere we go with the stuff that this is impossible. and all that ..
Using the basic formula of double then add 3.5 seconds.. Wariner not only beat that formula he went slighty below it..
20.19 was his best 200... 43.45 Do the math
According to the formula he should have ran 43.88 not 43.45
Therefore wariners formula using his best two times went like this..
He doubled his 20.19 and then added only 3.07 to give a total time of 43.45
This is why wariner had more potential in the 200.. His best time could have been around 19.85 or so.
See how it exponentially gets faster as the 200 time goes lower?
johnsons time of 19.32 was doubled and then we added a full 4.54 seconds to get his pr in the 400 of 43.18
Do you now see the difference and the meaning behind the two numbers 3.07 and 4.54 or not
Or is all of this just not ringing a bell?
Its as clear as day..
Is there any reason to believe that the formula should not exponentially get faster..
Are you saying that once 19.13 speed is reached then the endurance predictor is now slowed down by instead of 3.5 seconds ....... 4.5 seconds?
Why would it do that?
IT doesnt work like that.
Because going back to the 23.00 , 200 runner ,, its pretty much rare to use the double 23 and get 46 and then add 3.5 seconds and get 49.5 in the 400..
And if a runner has a pr of 23.00 and 49.5 then it just goes to show that they didnt push themselves hard enough in the 200 or that they have potential to run faster in the 200..
Why is all of this so hard to understand?
And now with the Third tier FORMULA of instead of adding 3.5 seconds, its now 3.0 seconds,, then thats why we get the top speed in the 400 meter dash to be at 41.26 to 41.76 as of right now.
Maybe they shouldnt have so many freaking rounds of the 400 in the olympics.. Wow..
Hey guys lets run the 400 all out like 3 times in 3 days and see what we can get..
Yeah because thats so smart.. Actually its not smart at all.
Do you realize how hard it is to do a 400 just one time a week let alone 3.. No wonder the times are nowhere near where they could be..
The spacing and the timing of the events is prob the funniest thing ive ever seen..
Of course they dont have the time to space each round of the olympic 400 out at 96 hours apart..
That would take too long.. But would it produce a world record if they did? yes it would..
I am a 400 meter professional.. I know everything there is to know about the 400 meter dash.
I have tested every theory.
There is no reason why a runner should have to run on 3 consecutive days in the 400 like they did in 2012 in the 400meters running on sat aug 4th, sunday august 5 and then the finals on monday august 6th..
Why is it so hard to understand this?
THE HUMAN BODY NEEDS A FULL 96 HOURS OF REST TIME BEFORE RUNNING OR DOING ANYTHING AGAIN.
NOT 24 hours..
Do you see the difference here?
If they dont space it out more then there needs to be only 2 rounds spaced out exactly 96 hours apart and if they cant do that then there needs to be 1 round with multiple different heats and each head is all out and whoever comes out with the fastest time then wins the olympics..
The 400 meter dash is not a distance event.. They have them running a total of a half mile of 400 meter dashes 90 percent hard even before they get to the final.
Why am i the only one that realizes this? I dont get it.
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another factor that comes into play is the fact that all track seasons are basically over by sept...
The season is WAY TOO SHORT
yeah part of this is due to it getting colder out all over europe and america..
Thats why in sept and october athletes need to train as if they are going to get their best times.. They actually need to try for their best times all the way up till november and december.. And if its too cold to run a track meet during those months then just hold all the november meets in miami.
There is no reason why the season should be over by august or sept.. None at all.
And then take off 4 months from peak training and go into a long indoor season..
The human body is just starting to wake up around sept and oct from the winter... and sept and oct and november and even december are key times to take advantage of some peak sprinting.
For example.. I just ran my best 400 of the year this week in 42 degree weather and rain. Its impossible for me to run in anything below 75 degrees out and expect a good time.. but here i am running my fastest 400 of the year in 42 degrees and rain in december.. Which means that given a warm day ill be alot faster.
I have the game plan for the 400.
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And yes i understand that not everyone is going to be training for both the 200 and 400 at the same time.
And there is usually a short window of anywhere from 24 weeks per year that an athlete is at absolute top speed...
And by top speed i mean getting their absolute best of the year..
Usually they will get their best and then taper off.
that window of oppurtunity is very small.. usually 24 weeks.. could be longer depending on the person.. but on average 34 weeks..
THerefore johnson had a very slim window of oppurtunity to really go for 41.7 in the 400 when he was at 19.32 but im sure it didnt workout like that..
and yeah its going to be tough to get someone to be able to get down to 19.2 at the same time using 400 meter training
But its possible to do it..
Even a 19.60 with the proper speed endurance using the 4 by 200 workout above exactly 4 days before the 400 meter race should produce a time using the standard add 3.5 seconds.. of 42.70 Seconds..
Therefore thats a full half of a second faster than the current record.. and i was being lenient..
It exponentially gets better as the 200 gets better therefore the actual formula for a time of 19.60 should be to add in 3.24
therefore producing a time of 42.44 seconds in the 400 through proper usage of the 4 by 200 workout 96 hours before all 400 meter races..
YOU CANT RUN A 400 METER DASH 3 TIMES IN A ROW ON 3 DAYS IN A ROW.. AND EXPECT TO RUN 42 SECONDS.. THEREFORE
unless the olympics changes their scheduling around the 400 then IT IS GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE to see a 42 second 400 meter dash time in the olympics..
The human body cannot run the toughest race on earth 3 days in a row..
a 400 is tougher than a marathon if run all out from start to finish..
THerefore to get the 41.26 41.76 time its going to have to come during the regular season..Last edited by track400meters; 12062014, 05:51 PM.
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Here we go with the stuff that this is impossible. and all that ..
Using the basic formula of double then add 3.5 seconds.. Wariner not only beat that formula he went slighty below it..
20.19 was his best 200... 43.45 Do the math
According to the formula he should have ran 43.88 not 43.45
Therefore wariners formula using his best two times went like this..
He doubled his 20.19 and then added only 3.07 to give a total time of 43.45
This is why wariner had more potential in the 200.. His best time could have been around 19.85 or so.
See how it exponentially gets faster as the 200 time goes lower?
johnsons time of 19.32 was doubled and then we added a full 4.54 seconds to get his pr in the 400 of 43.18
Do you now see the difference and the meaning behind the two numbers 3.07 and 4.54 or not
Or is all of this just not ringing a bell?
Its as clear as day..
Is there any reason to believe that the formula should not exponentially get faster..
Are you saying that once 19.13 speed is reached then the endurance predictor is now slowed down by instead of 3.5 seconds ....... 4.5 seconds?
Why would it do that?
IT doesnt work like that.
Because going back to the 23.00 , 200 runner ,, its pretty much rare to use the double 23 and get 46 and then add 3.5 seconds and get 49.5 in the 400..
And if a runner has a pr of 23.00 and 49.5 then it just goes to show that they didnt push themselves hard enough in the 200 or that they have potential to run faster in the 200..
Why is all of this so hard to understand?
And now with the Third tier FORMULA of instead of adding 3.5 seconds, its now 3.0 seconds,, then thats why we get the top speed in the 400 meter dash to be at 41.26 to 41.76 as of right now.
Maybe they shouldnt have so many freaking rounds of the 400 in the olympics.. Wow..
Hey guys lets run the 400 all out like 3 times in 3 days and see what we can get..
Yeah because thats so smart.. Actually its not smart at all.
Do you realize how hard it is to do a 400 just one time a week let alone 3.. No wonder the times are nowhere near where they could be..
The spacing and the timing of the events is prob the funniest thing ive ever seen..
Of course they dont have the time to space each round of the olympic 400 out at 96 hours apart..
That would take too long.. But would it produce a world record if they did? yes it would..
I am a 400 meter professional.. I know everything there is to know about the 400 meter dash.
I have tested every theory.
There is no reason why a runner should have to run on 3 consecutive days in the 400 like they did in 2012 in the 400meters running on sat aug 4th, sunday august 5 and then the finals on monday august 6th..
Why is it so hard to understand this?
THE HUMAN BODY NEEDS A FULL 96 HOURS OF REST TIME BEFORE RUNNING OR DOING ANYTHING AGAIN.
NOT 24 hours..
Do you see the difference here?
If they dont space it out more then there needs to be only 2 rounds spaced out exactly 96 hours apart and if they cant do that then there needs to be 1 round with multiple different heats and each head is all out and whoever comes out with the fastest time then wins the olympics..
The 400 meter dash is not a distance event.. They have them running a total of a half mile of 400 meter dashes 90 percent hard even before they get to the final.
Why am i the only one that realizes this? I dont get it.
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Dang!! Where was this guy 65 years ago? Now I find out I should have been running 45s instead of 46s.
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Originally posted by track400meters View Post43.18 is actually a very very weak record.
Its standard to give a
then standard to use a NEW FORMULA..
Now that formula is pretty much standard
THerefore im going to go with the fact that he had potential to run
the more the runner is rewarded with a different formula t
then there is a different formula.. to calculate 400 meter potential time.
I am a freaking genius with mathematics.. this is why i know this..
The new formula turns into
Now even if we dont exponentially increase the formula
Its standard physics.
Now . . . if only humans were the automatons we would like them to be . . . sigh . . .
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