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Ain't no ham like Birmingham!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by cladthin View Post
    It's Mar-tee-nez.

    I don't quite how to use a typical keyboard to give it a real phonetic spelling.
    you needn't worry about those funky "real" characters that nobody but a trained linguist knows; there are all kinds of acceptable ways to get your point across. And accepted convention is to use capital letters for stress, as in: mar-TEE-nez.

    The problem with the Brits (to generalize, having worked with many in my announcing career) is that they see the "english" word Martin at the front, use that and continue from there. QED: MAR-tin-ez

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    • #32
      Originally posted by cladthin View Post
      It's Mar-tee-nez.

      I don't quite how to use a typical keyboard to give it a real phonetic spelling.
      You didn't indicate the accent at all. It's mar-TEE-nez. Family names like Martinez, Gonzalez, Hernandez stress the penultimate syllable.

      I have to say that Storey is really getting on my nerves. He needs to be given a small collection of "superb's", "it really is's", "class act's" for each telecast, and when they're gone, he has to think of other words to say. "It really is" was Carol Lewis' favorite crutch, if you recall.
      Cheers,
      Alan Shank
      Woodland, CA

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      • #33
        Originally posted by tamabi View Post
        That's how I would pronounce it indeed, but then I come from a country with a latin-based language. You wouldn't believe how many French names are being butchered by English-speaking (or non-French speaking in general) commentators...
        Not only French. Geman, Nordic, whatever. Lars Riedel anyone? Rydell, Reedell. Not close. It's REEdl. Some music commentators can't even say Haydn correctly.

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        • #34
          Well, of course, there isn't a universal correct way to pronounce any name!
          Take Birmingham in England. Now, it could be argued that the locals must be pronouncing the name correctly, but, that correctly is very different than the local pronuciation in Birmingham Alabama.

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          • #35
            Stuart Storey has the most appalling set of clichés in present day commentating. Why the .... the Beeb don't replace, lord knows.

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            • #36
              To be fair to commentators a typical DL meet has 7 DL events plus the extras. Most have at least 8 competitors, some 12 and the countries with their own unique language or pronunciation will include England, Scotland, Ireland, the USA, Canada, France, Spain, Germany, Poland, Russia, Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, South Africa, Nigeria, Brazil, Columbia, Portugal, Italy, Belgium, Serbia, Croatia, Morocco, Egypt, Norway, Sweden, Finland, China, Australia, New Zealand, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Botswana, the Baltic states, Ukraine and many more.

              Basically a typical meet will have 100, athletes from over 40 countries and almost all of them speak with a different language and/or accent. Heck in most countries the accents have multiple variants of accent and pronunciation and even spelling e.g. Lynsey/Lindsey,/Lyndsey, Amy/Aimee and some don't have a consistent translation e.g. Hannah/Ganna/Hanna from Russian/Ukrainian. The commentators will name most of them in under 2 hours, often in rapid succession and calling action. I think they deserve a break for not always being able to get it 100% right on the spot or not always knowing the correct way to say it or even forgetting.

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              • #37
                Where's an ironic emoticon when you need one? North Americans calling out Brits on poor pronounciation. That would be a double emoticon for gh, who gave the London 2012 crowd hours of amusement with his idiosyncratic pronounciation.

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                • #38
                  I've just realised that the title of this thread can be drawn into the pronunciation debate!
                  The title could read " Ain't no ham in Birmingham!"
                  Why?
                  Because, in the local working-class pronunciation, the "ham" is pronounced more like "gum".

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                  • #39
                    The Oscar for sh.t pronunciation must be awarded to the guy who co- commentated on the Euros for the EAA website in the company of Peter Matthews. Do not know his name but his mispronunciation of 90 % of the athletes names was epic.!!!
                    Was it the same guy as the one caused near hysteria on our AW site a couple of years ago with dyslexia of name pronunciation?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by FrankS View Post
                      Well, of course, there isn't a universal correct way to pronounce any name!
                      Of course there is. The correct way to pronounce any name is the way the individual whose name it is pronounces it. A good announcer will aim to do that every time, no matter what the athlete's nationality may be.

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                      • #41
                        Well, if you include real names, why not add place names, in your correct pronunciation views?
                        Mexico, Paris, Barcelona etc are all pronounced differently by the locals than most English speakers!

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                        • #42
                          And, of course Birmingham is also a real name! Indeed, there have been a number of ruuners called Birmingham.
                          Now, all "Birminghams" will trace their names back to the city in England.
                          Therefore, are all those athletes - and all the people in Birmingham Alabama - pronouncing the name incorrectly if it doesn't sound like way it is pronounced in the UK Birmingham?

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by FrankS View Post
                            Well, if you include real names, why not add place names, in your correct pronunciation views?
                            Mexico, Paris, Barcelona etc are all pronounced differently by the locals than most English speakers!
                            Good question. The answer is that cities are customarily translated into English. We write and say Rome, not Roma. We don't refer to Munich as München. Even as to pronunciation, we use the standard English pronunciation found in English-language dictionaries and gazetteers. Thus we say PA-riss, not pa-REE and we say MEX-ih-coh, not MAY-hee-coh.

                            Names are different. Names are, of course, transliterated into the Roman alphabet (and there is not always a standard way to do that), but names that are already in the Roman alphabet should be left as is, diacriticals and all, and should be pronounced as they are pronounced by the athlete in his/her native language, to the extent possible.

                            I say "to the extent possible" because in some language, like Swedish, intonation is part of correct pronunciation and that is almost impossible for a native English speaker to get right. Chinese is another language like that. It is very possible for a native English speaker to learn the rules of pronouncing Pinyin, but it's almost impossible to do the intonation correctly.

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                            • #44
                              Americans, especially those from the west or south, are more likely to get the emphasis right on Latin names because there are so many Mexicans and central Americans there, going back many generations. Considering how many people of Irish extraction there are there, though, it always amazes me how Irish names have been gratuitously modified to move the emphasis from the first syllable to the second - for example, Moran and Mahoney. In both the UK and the US, Russian womens' names ending in -ova are usually given an emphasis on the "o" that should not be there. IMO, a professional sports commentator should make it his business to get at least these general rules right, if not some of the more esoteric ones.

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                              • #45
                                Returning to the topic of these boards, Mo Farah is a class act. He could easily have cruised home in 8:20, but because he has not raced in front of home crowds this summer and the UK 2M record, set back in 1978 by Ovett, had been hyped up before the race, he made sure to break it, and had to put in a tough last 800 to do it. It's not a particularly meaningful record to a track nut, so he was really doing it for the more general fans in the crowd.

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