Enroute Timing

[aaronk]

Look at the newest yearly lists up on this site.

Nick Willis leads the mile with 3:51.61.
The leading 1500 time is 3:37.79.
There's no way Willis ran slower than 3:37.0 enroute to his mile.
He got the INdoor NZ record for the mile.
I'm sure he broke the NZ record for INdoor 1500 too.
So even National Records are lost!!

Cam Levins almost certainly passed the 3000 meter point in his 8:15.38 two mile in about 7:42 or 7:43.
The leading 3000 time is 7:44.72.

The leading Women's 3000 is 8:47.61.
Jenny Simpson probably passed 3K in about 8:45 during her 9:18.35 two mile.

Shannon Rowbury assuredly lost her INdoor 1500 PR by not being timed enroute to her 4:22.66 mile at JDL.

And the examples are endless.

Meet Directors, please set up timing devices at the 1500 and 3000 points of elite one and two mile races---indoors and out.

Too many VERY good times---even World leading times and PR's---have been lost because no such devices were in place.

Don't tell me it can't be done, either!
Many meets here and around the world time runners enroute to longer distances----especially in the 1 and 2 mile races.

[Atticus]

Meet Directors, please set up timing devices at the 1500 and 3000 points of elite one and two mile races---indoors and out.
Don't tell me it can't be done, either!

Of course it CAN be done, but are you going to pay for the extra camera?
Meet directors are concerned with trying to make some money - or at least break even; if they get a record in an event that's good too, but 'en route' times are a concern more to people like you (and me and our ilk, the great Unwashed, Marks Snobs).

[aaronk]

If it's all about the $$$$$, then how to explain the following examples?:

Alan Webb gets BOTH 1500 and Mile HSR's in 2001, INdoors and OUTdoors!

Mary Cain gets BOTH 1500 and Mile HSR's (TWICE!!) in 2013, and gets the HSR at 3000 in her 2 Mile race against T Dibaba.

Abbey D'Agostino got the INdoor CR at 1500 (4:09.77) because that BU meet timed the runners at the 1500 enroute.
(Ditto with Cain and Jordan Hasay getting their INdoor 1500 PR's in that same race!)

Kim Conley getting her INdoor 1500 PR (4:05.70) during her Mile of 4:24.54 at The Armory.

And I'm sure there's many other examples!!

[Atticus]

If it's all about the $$$$$, then how to explain the following examples?

Easy . . . those meets were run by people who WERE interested in records and WERE willing to pay for maximizing that possibility.

[aaronk]

I just wish they ALL did it---meaning meets where fast times are expected!

Look at Jenny Barringer (now Simpson) when she ran the INdoor CR in the Mile with 4:25.91.
There's no way she didn't run at least 4:09.0---and probably 4:07 or 4:08----at 1500.

So now we have Abbey's 4:09.77 (in her 4:28.31 mile) being so much slower than the "actual" CR---which SHOULD have been Jenny's!!

[Tuariki]

Aaronk, perhaps you could contact meet directors prior to the meet and offer to fund the extra cameras they need.

[aaronk]

Aaronk, perhaps you could contact meet directors prior to the meet and offer to fund the extra cameras they need.

I understand about the money angle.
But that still doesn't explain all the meets that DID have enroute times taken!!

Millrose and Pre are well-funded.
But that BU meet where Cain ran the 4:24 (and Abbey got the 1500 CR)?
That was a College meet, wasn't it---with the NOP races added??
I doubt THEY had the money---unless NOP/Nike provided the funds for THEIR athletes!!

So the money excuse doesn't fit EVERY case!

Also, in venues where they hold lots of elite meets----The Armory, Hayward, Reggie Lewis, maybe even Arkansas and BU?---don't they have timers permanantly in place at the 1500 & 3K spots (for 1 & 2 mile races)?

You put the timers there ONCE----it's not a separate expense for each meet----except to turn the timer on and off!!

[gm]

You have to set up a camera and all the related equipment for each "finish line" every meet where you want en route times. No, you don't just do it once and leave it. It's an expense that most meets don't want to pay.

Also, figuring out exactly where to set up the en route camera for an imperial race on a 200m track is not so simple, as it takes some measuring.

[aaronk]

Also, figuring out exactly where to set up the en route camera for an imperial race on a 200m track is not so simple, as it takes some measuring.

Leaving aside the money angle, and focusing just on the measurement thing----

On a 200 meter track, you already have a line at the 100 mark--on the side opposite the start/finish line.
So since a 1 mile starts 9 meters BEFORE the start line, the 1500 mark would come 9 meters BEFORE the 100 line (after 7 full laps from where they started the mile).

For the 2 mile, you start 18 meters before the start/finish.
But here, the 3000 point would be right at the point they start (NOT the finish!!)....after 15 laps---then the race continues another full lap, plus those 18 meters!

[measurer]

Measuring is the easy part, I do it all the time (fyi- 9.344 meters). There are many other problems- some already stated. The cost is not insignificant. Cameras, tripods, and accessories are expensive and timers shouldn't give away their services. And considering for an indoor meet the timer already has two sets of cameras set up (oval and sprint finishes).
Then you have the problem of location. Every salesperson will tell you location is everything. Think of the locations on the infield of an indoor meet where you place the camera for the mile or two mile start or the 1500m of the mile. Cameras need to be protected- one accidental brush and the it's unaligned! I have seen less people at Grand Central Station at 5 pm on a Friday then on the infield of many indoor meets.

[aaronk]

Measurer, pardon me for nitpicking (i.e. being obnoxious! LOL).

OK, given everything you say about how expensive it is & the problems with location....I STILL haven't seen anybody say why one meet provides splits, and another meet doesn't.

OK, so Millrose & Pre can afford to do it.
But that BU Collegiate meet last year??
Did Nike pay for it, because Rupp and Cain were going for records?
Collegiate T&F meets aren't exactly rolling in the dough, right?

As for the busyness of the infield, Millrose's infield is crowded too, yes?

Anyway, sorry for pushing this, but can you or anyone explain why some do, and some don't?

[gh]

…..

Also, in venues where they hold lots of elite meets----The Armory, Hayward, Reggie Lewis, maybe even Arkansas and BU?---don't they have timers permanantly in place at the 1500 & 3K spots (for 1 & 2 mile races)?

You put the timers there ONCE----it's not a separate expense for each meet----except to turn the timer on and off!!

aaron, I'm afraid you're woefully lacking in understanding how this modern technology works. Those cameras are hellaciously expensive, and are pieces of precision equipment. As such, most venues don't own timing systems. That's a job that is contracted out.

You stage a meet and part of it is hiring the timing company to bring its equipment and install it. And run it during the meet. When the meet is over the cameras leave with the timing company.

And even if a facility were able to have its own in-house system (and even Hayward Field does not), it would not be left installed.

This ain't the days of a bunch of old dudes with stopwatches hanging out at the finish line.

[Powell]

This ain't the days of a bunch of old dudes with stopwatches hanging out at the finish line.

But hand times are still allowed official recognition at distances above 800, so potentially a bunch of dudes with stopwatches could be used as the 'enroute timing system'.

[Tuariki]

Measurer, pardon me for nitpicking (i.e. being obnoxious! LOL).

OK, given everything you say about how expensive it is & the problems with location....I STILL haven't seen anybody say why one meet provides splits, and another meet doesn't.

OK, so Millrose & Pre can afford to do it.
But that BU Collegiate meet last year??
Did Nike pay for it, because Rupp and Cain were going for records?
Collegiate T&F meets aren't exactly rolling in the dough, right?

As for the busyness of the infield, Millrose's infield is crowded too, yes?

Anyway, sorry for pushing this, but can you or anyone explain why some do, and some don't?

While you and probably many others on this site are mad keen to see if other records are broken on the way to the actual race distance, the spectators have come to see the race advertised, that is, say they have come to see the mile. They don't care about taking times at intermediate stages such as the 1500m (or 1600m). Also where does it stop? As an admittedly exaggerated example, do you set timing cameras at the 50m, 55m and 60m and 100y marks for a 100m race? I imagine when Bolt did his 9.58 he probably set records in all of those distances on his way to the 100m mark.

[KenStone]

Millrose will have 1500 phototimer set for Wanamaker Mile, since Bernard Lagat is likely to get the M40 mile world record (now held by Eamonn Coghlan at 3:58.15) and Anthony Whiteman's 1500 WR of 3:44.12.

My predictions:

http://masterstrack.com/2015/02/34489/

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