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The real reason Oregon lost 4 X 1 mile at Penn.

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  • The real reason Oregon lost 4 X 1 mile at Penn.

    I read in the Penn Relays thread that Cheserek's ridiculous slowing of the anchor leg lost Oregon the race in the 4 x 1 mile relay. I agree that it was a poor tactic and didn't help but I believe the real reason was because Eric Jenkins didn't run. If he would have been in the race Cheserek would have had an unbeatable margin on the anchor leg.

    Anyone know why Jenkins didn't run that race or the DMR?

  • #2
    Race outcomes aren't due to athletes who aren't even in the race. If one assumes that Cheserek and Williamsz are equal in capability (i.e., neither one is clearly superior to the other; this is reasonable since they ran about the same time (within 0.5sec) in the DMR the day before), then the outcome is due to tactics, since Cheserek had a lead when he got the baton. Since you agree Cheserek's tactics were poor, then that is the reason they lost. This is not a fantasy league or simulated race where one gets to pick and choose who you want on your team.

    Comment


    • #3
      Regardless of who or what was to blame, the last leg of that race was quite amazing. I suspect people are going to be talking about it for years. I've seen slowdowns, but I can't recall ever seeing what happened on that curve, where the lead pack practically stopped running. Quite astonishing.

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      • #4
        I just wrote at length about this in my blog.
        In summation, I think Ches should either....

        A. be suspended from the team for the rest of the season, and have his scholarship slashed accordingly
        B. at the very least, his coach should STRONGLY reprimand him---publicly---as should his teammates--especially those 3 lead-off legs who lost an almost certain CR and/or sub-16:00 time by Ches's antics!!

        I HOPE this wasn't sanctioned by the coach!!
        Abominable behavior!!
        He just lost a fan!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by aaronk View Post
          I just wrote at length about this in my blog.
          In summation, I think Ches should either....

          A. be suspended from the team for the rest of the season, and have his scholarship slashed accordingly
          B. at the very least, his coach should STRONGLY reprimand him---publicly---as should his teammates--especially those 3 lead-off legs who lost an almost certain CR and/or sub-16:00 time by Ches's antics!!

          I HOPE this wasn't sanctioned by the coach!!
          Abominable behavior!!
          He just lost a fan!
          This is some of the craziest stuff I've ever read. Suspend him for TACTICS? The bottom line is that he did what the coaches told him to do. Nothing more, nothing less. No one thought he could be out-kicked. The strategy was wrong, but that's 20-20 hindsight (simply put, had Ches run something around 4:00, it's doubtful that Williams would have been able to complete two races around 4:00 in 24 hours; he's an 800 guy and once the race turned into a 200, Williams simply had better speed). Why would the coaches have him expend little energy? Why not? The Penn Relays isn't the biggest meet he'll run this year, so why take even a slight chance on burning him out in April? Remember, this is a guy who ran THREE sub-4s in 24 hours at Fayetteville six weeks ago when they needed him for a NATIONAL TITLE. Ches doesn't at all deserve your blame nor your fair weather fan attitude.

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          • #6
            Check out the 6 pages (as of 2-3 hours ago) of "commentary" on the Let's Run MB!
            While, as per usual, they veer sharply into "crazy" territory, the gist of those 6 pages is that I'm right!
            Maybe not about the suspension thing, but surely that this (the "tactic") was insane!!
            They (LR's MB) also agreed that those 3 guys who ran the 1st 3 legs should be VERY angry at Ches!
            THEY ran good to great legs, keeping UO within striking distance of a sub-16 and/or a MR....IF Ches ran like THEY did--to the best of his ability.

            The doubling/tripling excuse doesn't wash.
            Stanford's women ran 3 distance relays...and THEY all put out in all 3!!

            If Johnson was the one who told Ches to do that, then HE should be reprimanded!!

            I watched the race---belatedly--on Flotrack---and they said there was a lot of booing against Oregon....and NOT because the crowd hates UO, or loves Villanova!

            Imagine, if you will, the following:

            The USA Women's 4X400 team is leading after 3 legs in the World Relays (or WC or OG), with McCorory on anchor.

            She takes the baton.....and STOPS....waiting for Jamaica to catch up.
            She does this until 100 to go...THEN gets serious.....but LOSES!!
            aaronk
            Senior Member
            Last edited by aaronk; 04-26-2015, 11:27 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bruce3404 View Post
              This is some of the craziest stuff I've ever read.
              You haven't read many of his posts I see.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                ..While, as per usual, they veer sharply into "crazy" territory, the gist of those 6 pages is that I'm right!...Imagine, if you will, the following:

                The USA Women's 4X400 team is leading after 3 legs in the World Relays (or WC or OG), with McCorory on anchor.

                She takes the baton.....and STOPS....waiting for Jamaica to catch up.
                She does this until 100 to go...THEN gets serious.....but LOSES!!
                I don't think the LR board is the arbiter of all things right & wrong in t&f. Also, when you make ridiculous statements like how Cheserek should be disciplined, it misses the focus of the discussion about tactics. The analogy with a 4x400 relay is completely inappropriate, since these race tactics are not applied in sprint relays. Again, this shows a lack of understanding of the issue being discussed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It was a very strange anchor leg, which led to a very exciting finish. Period.

                  Perhaps a public reprimand might be appropriate in some alternative universe where the two top team goals are a Collegiate Record in a rarely-contested event and winning a Penn Relays watch.

                  But back here on Earth there is no controversy. Relying on the finishing kick of Cheserek is a winning strategy in almost every situation. Knowing that it is not a certainty is what makes the sport exciting.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Samurai_Runner View Post
                    I don't think the LR board is the arbiter of all things right & wrong in t&f. Also, when you make ridiculous statements like how Cheserek should be disciplined, it misses the focus of the discussion about tactics. The analogy with a 4x400 relay is completely inappropriate, since these race tactics are not applied in sprint relays. Again, this shows a lack of understanding of the issue being discussed.
                    Okay, tactics only!

                    Your first 3 guys leave your team ahead by 2 feet or so.
                    (Villanova almost caught the 3rd guy at the line.)
                    Your 4th guy has the ability to run 3:52 if he wanted, maybe faster.
                    He's facing a guy who just ran 3:36 for 1500, and has a 1:46 800 to his credit also.
                    What to do?
                    Play "bike race" with him, giving him SOME chance to beat you?
                    Or have such confidence in your own ability that you go out in 1:54 and DARE him to stick with you?
                    (And even if he does, YOU have 5K and 10K strength he doesn't, so you'll win one way or the other!)

                    Sorry, but STOPPING and letting your dangerous opponent catch up with you is bad----make that VERY bad---tactics!

                    And if I were those other 3 guys, and watching this game, I'd be PISSED!!

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                    • #11
                      Why is everyone blaming Ches? I just don't get it. There were 9 other teams that refused to run around him. What were their coaches telling them, run Ches' race? That they should pace off of him? As I watched the race, it was crazy that one person, executing his strategy, which appeared to be not to lead the race. It appeared that he slowed down to let someone else lead the race (i assume because it was windy (assumption as i don't know)) and no one does it! That was really crazy to witness and shame on those coaches who told their runners not to try and win but to base their race on another team's strategy

                      For those who are blaming Ches, should also be blaming all of the other teams and coaches for telling their kids to only key off of one runner only. I mean I was shocked that the field refused to run pass the guy. What were they thinking? Was the strategy for the other teams to follow Ches? Did those team's not have any team goals or times to achieve that didnt involve Oregon?

                      I am not mad a Ches but mad at the other 9 teams for making their strategy/plans/goals based on one runner. Having said that, I do believe Ches' teammates have a legitimate gripe with him, but all the other teams should have a gripe with their anchors (except Villanova) and/or coaches for poor execution and strategy.

                      I hope it is a lesson for many teams that their strategies shouldn't be to just follow one runner and to execute their own race plans.

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                      • #12
                        How do you know that if Jenkins had run the second leg or whatever that 3:58 miler Rob Denault, who just ran 3:40 in the 1500 in the last week wouldn't have matched him?

                        Oregon ran a team that had four All-Americans. They were beaten by a Villanova team that also had four All-Americans.

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                        • #13
                          Tactics, schmatics, that was one of the stupidest anchor leg "races" I've ever seen! Judging from the booing from the stands some agree.

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                          • #14
                            Even though aaronK is a little over the top in his point(s), I agree with his basic thesis...it was a poor tactic by Ches and he paid for it and let his teammates down. If I was Coach Johnson I would say, "hope you learned something from that one buddy".

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                            • #15
                              In addition, I maintain my point that Oregon would have won handily if Eric Jenkins would have run. It seems strange that he wasn't on the DMR either...hope he's not injured or something.

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