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  • Mary Cain. [back to New York?]

    After reading all the feedback re: Mary Cain after her lackluster 1500m race at the Oxy High Performance meet, I wanted to ad my own thoughts in a new thread.

    I'm hoping she will figure out w/ Coach Salazar's help what's going on this year and steadily get back to her previous form. But she may be another case of the early phenom burnout. Watching her now, it's hard to believe that she has run under 2:00.0 and 4:05.00 and been in world class competition. There's a real possibility we will never see that again.
    Last edited by gh; 05-27-2015, 05:50 PM.

  • #2
    I truly feel the bare-bones racing schedule Salazar has had her on since she left high school competition has really stunted her development. She seemed to be at her best when she was racing on a regular schedule, and regardless of how much speedwork she may be doing in training it's not the same, especially for a young, emerging talent. Now folks may point to Rupp and Hasay as examples of how Salazar's vision has worked well, and that would be true. However, it's important to remember both also had collegiate careers.

    But I will reserve judgement until we see what happens next month, and the rest of this season. Certainly no 1500 PR, at the very least, for the 2nd consecutive year would be an ominous sign indeed.
    There are no strings on me

    Comment


    • #3
      Early phenom burnout at her level - possibly at any level - is almost a myth. Very few young American women have run as fast as she has at her age. Those who did - Decker, Gallagher, Larrieu - succeeded.

      Mary Cain has already run at the WC and was WJC 3000 meter Champion last year.

      She is 19, away from home the first time, and has to balance school and a career. Let's wait until she's 25 before we bury her career.

      Comment


      • #4
        For what it is worth, I'll remind people of Mary Saxer. Stellar HS career. Complete bust in College. Then a great pro career.

        Comment


        • #5
          Chanelle Price, same story, except she won world indoors.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by booond View Post
            Early phenom burnout at her level - possibly at any level - is almost a myth. Very few young American women have run as fast as she has at her age. Those who did - Decker, Gallagher, Larrieu - succeeded.

            Mary Cain has already run at the WC and was WJC 3000 meter Champion last year.

            She is 19, away from home the first time, and has to balance school and a career. Let's wait until she's 25 before we bury her career.
            And a big hallelujah to that. And the same applies to all these young brilliant athletes like Mary Cain, Jacko Gill and others who all of a sudden have what is considered a down year because of our expectations from their earlier exploits.

            Mary Cain clearly has the talent and ability to go under 4:00 for the 1500m. Will she get there? Who knows. I hope so. But what we don't need is the poisonous drivel and ravings of her previously most outspoken promoter and supporter.

            Comment


            • #7
              Worth noting - no Cain at Pre


              1500 METERS
              Sifan HASSAN NED
              Jenny SIMPSON USA
              Shannon ROWBURY USA
              Axumawit EMBAYE ETH
              Laura WEIGHTMAN GBR
              Maryam Yusuf JAMAL BRN
              Renata PLIŚ POL
              Treniere MOSER USA
              Hannah ENGLAND GBR
              Zoe BUCKMAN AUS
              Alexa EFRAIMSON USA
              Emma COBURN USA
              There are no strings on me

              Comment


              • #8
                I've been a huge Mary Cain fan for a long time, and I still am. But I must confess that I'm worried. Something isn't right and I don't know what that is. booond mentioned that she's living away from home for the first time. Add the fact that she's now presumably working with Salazar in person much more than she did when he was coaching her from afar. I don't expect that college is challenging her academically, but it is different. And of course, it's just possible that she's had injury issues she hasn't been able to shake quickly.

                I do hope that whatever the problem or problems she may have, it/they are soon behind her. But again, in the meantime I'm worried. I wish her well. At her best, there is nobody more exciting these days. I want to see that excitement return. The sooner the better.

                Comment


                • #9
                  No mention of anything yet, but maybe she'll be in some "B" race at Pre---maybe on the Friday night session.
                  That would be embarrassing for her, but better than no race at all!

                  But for right now, at least, I'd have to say Efraimson has taken over as the star Pro girl teen on the American scene!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by guru View Post
                    Worth noting - no Cain at Pre


                    1500 METERS
                    Sifan HASSAN NED
                    Jenny SIMPSON USA
                    Shannon ROWBURY USA
                    Axumawit EMBAYE ETH
                    Laura WEIGHTMAN GBR
                    Maryam Yusuf JAMAL BRN
                    Renata PLIŚ POL
                    Treniere MOSER USA
                    Hannah ENGLAND GBR
                    Zoe BUCKMAN AUS
                    Alexa EFRAIMSON USA
                    Emma COBURN USA
                    Not shocking. Something's not working and no reason to keep hitting your head against the wall. Better to step back and take a different tack.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                      No mention of anything yet, but maybe she'll be in some "B" race at Pre---maybe on the Friday night session.
                      That would be embarrassing for her, but better than no race at all!
                      Maybe not. I agree with booond. If it ain't working, give it a rest.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oldvaulter
                        Resting (from competition) is practically all she does -- she hardly ever competes. That's what's not working.
                        How much do you know of her situation? Do you speak with her regularly? Do you watch her workouts?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oldvaulter
                          I know when she competes, which is practically never, and that's what I commented on. I also know that when she was competing frequently, she was performing much better and more consistently.
                          She was sick indoors, I don't know what she had but they canceled her season. That may have put her behind training or not. I don't know.

                          She's run 3 times in the past month; none have been to the level of 2013/2014, especially her race last week. There is nothing in her recent performances which suggests that continual racing will make it go better. She doesn't seem to be in the right fitness - physically, or, possibly, mentally.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by booond View Post
                            She was sick indoors, I don't know what she had but they canceled her season. That may have put her behind training or not. I don't know.

                            She's run 3 times in the past month; none have been to the level of 2013/2014, especially her race last week. There is nothing in her recent performances which suggests that continual racing will make it go better. She doesn't seem to be in the right fitness - physically, or, possibly, mentally.
                            She appears on the american women's indoor lists in four events for this year, 600,800,1000, and 1500/mile, so she had at the very least four indoor races, plus the three recent 1500's for a minimum of seven 2015 races, with substantially diminishing results. It's obvious that whatever her problems are they do not include under-racing,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oldvaulter
                              The same principle is acknowledged in just about every other sport also, and it continually mystifies me that track and field athletes seem to ignore this, and suffer the consequences of frequent sub-par and inconsistent performances, even among very talented athletes.

                              It should be noted that this seems to be a particularly American problem. The foreign stars in track and field typically compete much more frequently than their American counterparts. And they clearly benefit from this by competing at a high level more consistently. Of course there are many American athletes who are massively talented and manage to compete well, at least most of the time, even with limited competition. Talent counts for a lot! And some American athletes do try to get in a lot of competition, and they correspondingly benefit from this. So I am speaking of a general principle that applies is most cases, but there will always be exceptions. Mary Cain's pattern seems to be following the general pattern I am discussing, and not the exception.
                              I believe you're talking out of your hat.

                              You're trying to equate certain sports to Track and Field and they may not be the same thing. It is hard to improve in tennis when you're batting the ball against a wall. You improve by practice and then using what you've learned in practice against an opponent. As you improve you need to work against other opponents to learn what works and what doesn't. It's not like that in track. Sure, it helps tactics and gets the juices flowing to compete against others, but it won't turn a 4:15 runner, which Mary Cain is right now, to a 4:04 runner, which she was in 2013. If anything, if there is a physical or mental problem, running more is as likely to hurt as it is to help.

                              As to whether competing more for track and field athletes is a sound principle that "applies in most cases" I'd need to see evidence, real evidence - facts and figures, not anecdotal evidence.

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