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  • Bob Duncan
    replied
    All I've got to say is that because of her entry into the big time a couple of years ago, she became the biggest star for many of us in the US who follow middle distances. I can't remember when the last time such genuine excitement was generated for many of us and she is one helluva tough act to follow.

    Leave a comment:


  • odelltrclan
    replied
    Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
    In response to Aaronk's comments about her lack of interviews I would respond with fame is fleeting. There could be a number of reasons for the lack of interviews however the biggest one, I believe, is that she's just not competitive at the moment.
    There is also a much greater interest from the general public towards a high school phenom competing with the professional elites as opposed to an adult doing so

    Leave a comment:


  • JumboElliott
    replied
    There's a lot of Kremlinology going on in this thread.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotDutra5
    replied
    In response to Aaronk's comments about her lack of interviews I would respond with fame is fleeting. There could be a number of reasons for the lack of interviews however the biggest one, I believe, is that she's just not competitive at the moment.

    Leave a comment:


  • gh
    replied
    OK, so I purged all the nastiness from this thread yesterday afternoon and closed it down for a cooling-off period. Are we all ready to play nice again?

    Leave a comment:


  • TN1965
    replied
    Originally posted by oldvaulter
    The pattern of competing freuently as an amateur, usually at the collegiate level but sometimes also at the high school level, and progressing continuously, and competing well, followed by turning pro, hardly ever competing, and experiencing stagnation and lack of progress is a common pattern with US athletes.
    When Ajee Wilson turned pro after high school. pundits on this board speculated on how lack of frequent racing might hurt her growth as a runner. Well, you may want to ask her now how that has turned out.

    If you think Wilson is an outlier, check the collegiate PBs and current PBs of Shannon Rowbury, Brenda Martinez, Leo Manzano among others.

    Check where Galen Rupp finished in Worth Youth and World Junior, and how much ahead Tariku Bekele and Augstine Choge were in those races. Where did Tariku finish in that London race?

    Do you think all of them are outliers?

    Leave a comment:


  • aaronk
    replied
    Folks here are talking about her races--good and bad--to try to analyze why she's running so poorly now.
    I may have another avenue to follow.

    During her "better years"---meaning 2013 (all) and 2014 (indoors only)---Cain would give some fantastic interviews---mostly to Flotrack, but really, to anyone who shoved a microphone in her face!
    And these interviews---some in the 7 minutes or longer range!--showed us a young girl who OOZED enthusiasm and confidence, a sense of humor, and a rapid-speaking loquaciousness laced with the grammatical frailties of your typical teenager!
    And through these MANY interviews, she gradually became "America's T&F Darling".

    But have you noticed anything different SINCE the end of her 2014 indoor season?

    Those interviews have, for all intents, disappeared.
    Not just the "personality" of their content---but the interviews themselves!
    I can't remember the last one she gave---though, as I said, I believe it was after her last indoor race of 2014.
    NOTHING since!!

    I've seen an article or two about her.
    These sometimes included a quote or two attributed to Cain.
    But no interviews.

    And you can't use the excuse that she doesn't give interviews after bad races.
    She did in 2014---the 2:39.25 1000, which she considered below her capabilities---and maybe 1 other.

    So you have to ask--Why?

    Is she embarrassed by her poor times, and just doesn't want to talk to anyone about it?

    Is she tired---in the larger sense---of being "America's track darling"----and just wants to be "normal average girl Mary" again?

    If it were me, I can't imagine wanting to talk about a bad race!
    And for a 19 year old, she maybe just doesn't want to share her feelings and emotions----unless they're good positive ones.

    She's always said she likes being the inspiration for young girls wanting to run fast.
    Maybe she doesn't feel "inspiring"---and doesn't want those young girls to see a distraught despairing (IF that's how she's feeling!!) Mary Cain.

    I don't know.
    I would love to see the "old Mary Cain" re-emerge.
    Whatever the reason for her poor races recently, I hope she finds whatever she needs to solve the problem!

    Leave a comment:


  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by Atticus
    If I were Miss Mary's parents, I would be VERY weirded out that a bunch of grumpy old men were discussing their daughter in such great detail. Just sayin' . . .
    Speak for yourself Atticus - I am happy to wear the moniker "grumpy" but I draw the line at your other misguided insinuation

    Leave a comment:


  • Tuariki
    replied
    Originally posted by oldvaulter
    ............

    It should be noted that this seems to be a particularly American problem. The foreign stars in track and field typically compete much more frequently than their American counterparts. And they clearly benefit from this by competing at a high level more consistently. ........
    And on behalf of Jacko, I agree with you wholeheartedly

    Leave a comment:


  • tandfman
    replied
    Originally posted by oldvaulter
    By contrast, she began competing much less as a pro under Salazar in 2014. She competed less indoors, but still did well.
    Fact is, in 2014 she competed in 6 indoor meets, one MORE than she had in 2013.

    Leave a comment:


  • NotDutra5
    replied
    I don't buy the underraced theory at all. With the illness we have no idea how much that could have taken out of her or what it even was. Rupp had an illness issue as well as hasn't been seen since. So maybe it was a pretty severe bug which caused serious training problems. Could have taken a lot out of the legs as well.

    This is all in addition to some other issues raised.

    Leave a comment:


  • booond
    replied
    You're both wrong... Vashti Cunningham.

    Kendell Williams
    Dior Hall

    Leave a comment:


  • 26mi235
    replied
    Originally posted by aaronk View Post

    But for right now, at least, I'd have to say Efraimson has taken over as the star Pro girl teen on the American scene!
    I did not realize that 17 year old Kaylin Whitney's lmiddle name was Efraimson. You know the Kaylin that came in second in the 200 to VCB today in the IWC meet in China.

    Leave a comment:


  • Samurai_Runner
    replied
    Originally posted by oldvaulter
    ...In any case, if this principle is still obscure to you, then I have nothing further to say to you about this.
    Have to agree with booond. Your theory doesn't universally apply to all sports, regardless of your observations of these "patterns". Have you been a middle distance runner or coached them? If not, what is the basis of your theory that contradicts a professional coach? To state that increased competition frequency = better performances doesn't make sense from a logic viewpoint. Performance is based on a number of factors, and to state that competition frequency is the main driver for Cain's performance is ridiculous. She could be competing every weekend, but if all the other factors that cause her to run 4:16 don't change, then she isn't going to improve.

    Leave a comment:


  • booond
    replied
    Originally posted by oldvaulter
    The same principle is acknowledged in just about every other sport also, and it continually mystifies me that track and field athletes seem to ignore this, and suffer the consequences of frequent sub-par and inconsistent performances, even among very talented athletes.

    It should be noted that this seems to be a particularly American problem. The foreign stars in track and field typically compete much more frequently than their American counterparts. And they clearly benefit from this by competing at a high level more consistently. Of course there are many American athletes who are massively talented and manage to compete well, at least most of the time, even with limited competition. Talent counts for a lot! And some American athletes do try to get in a lot of competition, and they correspondingly benefit from this. So I am speaking of a general principle that applies is most cases, but there will always be exceptions. Mary Cain's pattern seems to be following the general pattern I am discussing, and not the exception.
    I believe you're talking out of your hat.

    You're trying to equate certain sports to Track and Field and they may not be the same thing. It is hard to improve in tennis when you're batting the ball against a wall. You improve by practice and then using what you've learned in practice against an opponent. As you improve you need to work against other opponents to learn what works and what doesn't. It's not like that in track. Sure, it helps tactics and gets the juices flowing to compete against others, but it won't turn a 4:15 runner, which Mary Cain is right now, to a 4:04 runner, which she was in 2013. If anything, if there is a physical or mental problem, running more is as likely to hurt as it is to help.

    As to whether competing more for track and field athletes is a sound principle that "applies in most cases" I'd need to see evidence, real evidence - facts and figures, not anecdotal evidence.

    Leave a comment:

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