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Adjusted world lists for Beijing qualification

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  • #46
    I presume countries are not obliged to select their top 3 as long as the selected athletes still meet the criteria. And mightn't that confuse the 'cutoffs'?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by AS View Post
      I presume countries are not obliged to select their top 3 as long as the selected athletes still meet the criteria. And mightn't that confuse the 'cutoffs'?
      I don't see how, countries can only select athletes with the IAAF standard and they can only select three. No matter who they select, those three will always have a better mark than the ones with a small q in the list. What might (and i think will) effect the cutoffs is countries not selecting athletes with the qualifying mark. For example shotputter Thomas Schmitt, who is no. 6 in the list with his 21.35m from march, currently does not have the German standard because the German qualification period started on april 1st. But it's impossible to include individual qualification criteria for 200 countries.

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      • #48
        But is it possible that a country chooses not to select an athlete who does have a Q and instead selects someone who is 'next in line' (but without a Q)?

        I simply don't see who the IAAF handles all this and communicates the invitations in any systematic way. Do they keep going down the list until a country/athlete says 'yes'?

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        • #49
          And the Area Champs aspect is just weird and somewhat discriminatory:

          - The Area Champion shall be the one who has achieved the title either in 2014or 2015. If an Area does not have Area Championships in that period, then theArea may organise an alternate event to select the Area Champion.
          - The Member Federation of the Area Champion will have the ultimate authorityto enter the athlete or not, based on its own domestic standard or qualificationsystem.
          - If the Member Federation of the Area Champion enters the athlete, he will beconsidered as having achieved the Entry Standard.
          - If the Area Champion, for whatever reason, is not entered, his quota will not bedelegated to the second placed athlete and the normal entry rules andconditions apply
          The six Areas for which IAAF reports records are:
          Asia (3-7 June, 2015)
          Africa (2014)
          Europe (2014)
          North, Central America & Caribbean (Aug 7-9, 2015)
          South America (12-14 June, 2015)
          Oceania

          Oceania is the odd one out. There was a champs held in Cairns Australia in May, 2015. But Australia & NZ don't send senior, world class athletes. It's more a developmental event for the Pacific Islands. But, by rights, the winners are Area Champs. I can't see any of them on the database above. The results can be seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_O..._Championships

          And will the US/JAM etc send Top 3 athletes from USTAF without A quals to NCAC to chase a last minute entry on the basis of Area Champ entry? It could certainly work for weaker throws etc...
          Last edited by AS; 06-12-2015, 05:47 PM.

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          • #50
            This "Area Champion" stuff is totally bogus, in my view, just another sop to countries weak in athletics. Why not let national champions from every country in? One can imagine an athlete saying, "I just want to represent my Area with honor." What a load!
            Cheers,
            Alan Shank

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            • #51
              The fastest-growing section in the wonderful ATFS annual must be the "Transfer of national allegiance" section. A suggested template:

              I pledge (transferred) allegiance to the flag of (insert nation), which has fewer than three world-class athletes in my event.

              Cheers,
              Alan Shank
              Woodland, CA, GUM

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              • #52
                Originally posted by AS View Post
                But is it possible that a country chooses not to select an athlete who does have a Q and instead selects someone who is 'next in line' (but without a Q)?
                USATF believes that it can solicit the IAAF to invite a q instead of a Q:

                "In the event that one or more of the top three placers in the Trials has not met the qualifying standard but has a performance that appears to be good enough to warrant an invitation based on the ranking list and number of known qualifiers, USATF may solicit an invitation from the IAAF for that athlete(s) notwithstanding that other U.S. athletes have met the qualifying standard. The intent is that, to the extent possible, the order of finish at the U. S. Championships shall determine whether an athlete competes in the World Championships."

                For norunner: thanks for the info on 1500/mile ranking, since neither IAAF or USATF make that clear. With Centro and Kwemoi added as "other qualifiers", list seems right (except Willis still listed as both a Q and a q).

                Thanks again.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by player View Post
                  USATF believes that it can solicit the IAAF to invite a q instead of a Q:
                  Shouldn't be too difficult, it's up to the federations which athletes they want to select and if the US only selects two 100m runners with the standard, then a third one would be invited if he is among the best ranked ones in the list. But i doubt the IAAF would invite a low ranked athlete just because he placed among the top 3 at the US trials, because some other athlete would have to be left out for that US athlete.

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                  • #54
                    And the IAAF should not bend their rules just to suit USATF

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                    • #55
                      I fixed the problem with double athletes in the list.

                      I also add a small new feature. Now you can highlight a country.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Oliver View Post
                        I fixed the problem with double athletes in the list.

                        I also add a small new feature. Now you can highlight a country.
                        Kudos to you, Oliver! Great job!
                        Cheers,
                        Alan Shank

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Tuariki View Post
                          And the IAAF should not bend their rules just to suit USATF
                          Can you clarify what you are trying to say here Tuariki. I think the whole "bubble time" moving qualification standard thing is in fact an actual issue that will have to be worked out with this new qualification system. USATF simply wants there championships to have as much meaning as possible and that is a completely valid goal. Frankly I think the IAAF should give "all" countries maximum flexibility the first pass as this new system and if that means you do something like submit a list with 5 names (limit is normally 4) and then that all gets sorted out at the last minute then so be it. But no one should be forced to include or exclude an athlete who is on the bubble before the absolute final deadline when the real qualification standard is known.

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                          • #58
                            @donley2: Let's take mLJ as an example and lets say an american athlete with an SB of 8m wins the trials with the jump of his life of 8.40m, unfortunately windy. He hasn't met the IAAF standard, so USATF can't select him, what they could do is hope that his 8m will be enough for him to fill one of the invite slots, incase less than 32 athletes met the standard. But USATF can't ask the IAAF to give him one of those invites just because he is the US trial winner, because that would mean that some other athlete who is ahead of him in the rankings won't get invited.

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                            • #59
                              I just looked at the world rankings in the women's triple jump. As of this morning, only eight women had the world standard. A low quality event gets even less competition.

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                              • #60
                                I think we are talking about two different things. What I am talking about is the case where on say Aug 1 one of the top three Americans (in the USATF champs) in the LJ is 30th, 31st or 32nd on the qualification list, but there are three others with auto qualifiers. USATF should not be forced to pick there team until the absolute final deadline when they know where the 32nd qualifying spot is. Slow typing, this is meant as a response to norunner.

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