Decathletes as T&Fn AOY

[KDFINE]

The Men's AOY forum has raised the question as to whether Eaton's one performance with a WR merits consideration. Some historical prospective.

T&Fn has named a men's AOY since 1959. Only three times has a decathlete won. All three set WR's. In 1960 R. Johnson won both his competitions. In 1963 C.K. Yang won his only competition but was also ranked 6th in the PV winning 7 of 12. And in 1969 B. Toomey was 9 for 9! His first competition that year was a tune-up of the first 8 events.

Decathletes have finished second in the voting thrice. All three set WR's. In 1976 Jenner set 2 WR's was 4 for 4, but finished second to Junatorena. In 1982 D. Thompson set 2 WR's and was 2 for 2. He finished 2nd to . Lewis. And, in 2012 A. Eaton set was 2 for 2 and finished 2nd to Rudisha.

Decathletes have finished 3rd twice setting WR's. Decathletes have set WR's and not finished in the top ten of AOY voting (Hodge, Jenner, Thompson, Kratschmer, Hingsen, O'Brien & Sebrle). Decathletes have set WR's and not only failed to crack to top ten but have not been the highest ranked in their event for that year (Hodge, Kratschmer, Hingsen, O'Brien, Sebrle).

Finally, the first AOY in 1959, Martin Lauer won on the basis of his WR's in the highs and lows, and with his second ranking in the decathlon.

[gh]

good stuff!

[bobguild76]

Thank you! I love it.

Great point about setting a WR and not even finishing #1 in the Dec. In fact, Sebrle had the POY in 2001, with his barrier breaking 9,000 plus, and yet because of injury, finished 10th at the WC.

And of course, O'Brien had his nh at the '92 OT, didn't make the Olympic team, and took the WR later in the year, finishing 3rd in the POY.

[Atticus]

All that said, I really, really . . . really think that Eaton is the Athlete of the Year, in every sense of that appellation.

[lonewolf]

Eaton by acclimation.

[gh]

I would note that the legendary R.L. Quercetani, generally acknowledged as the greatest statistician the sport has ever known, and one of the founding fathers of the T&FN World Rankings back in the '40s, has never voted for AOY.

He strongly feels the apples & oranges aspect of comparing people across events makes it an impossible task, so he's happy just working inside events.

I don't disagree with him, but it's a must-do topic!

[26mi235]

This year is a bit different in that there are no other WRs (in the earlier years there were generally many more) an it is probably harder to set one in the Decathlon as well. And, there are no seasons like Rudisha's (partly, no other WRs). In addition, WRs in the WC/OGs generally count for more for several reasons (very difficult in distance races - on the men's side what was the last WR set at 1500 and above in a Championship meet?).

How often has a major WR, being the only WR for the year, not gotten the AOY, especially if the athlete hasn't been beaten too much (Eaton's WR/win is a one-off in the sense that he one did one, but it is not a one-off where the athlete was not at the top level in general and had one great moment)?

[mump boy]

This year is a bit different in that there are no other WRs (in the earlier years there were generally many more) an it is probably harder to set one in the Decathlon as well. And, there are no seasons like Rudisha's (partly, no other WRs). In addition, WRs in the WC/OGs generally count for more for several reasons (very difficult in distance races - on the men's side what was the last WR set at 1500 and above in a Championship meet?).

How often has a major WR, being the only WR for the year, not gotten the AOY, especially if the athlete hasn't been beaten too much (Eaton's WR/win is a one-off in the sense that he one did one, but it is not a one-off where the athlete was not at the top level in general and had one great moment)?

For what it's worth there was a WR in the 20k walk this year

[mump boy]

last year Yohan Diniz broke he WR in 50k walk at the major champs of the year in his only attempt at the distance. He also lead the world in he rarely raced 20,000m track race

I don't remember any discussion or threads started to discuss his claim to AOY

[26mi235]

Yes, few consider the 50k walk a major event, do you? Conversely, the decathlon is one of the iconic events in the sport.

[Tuariki]

Admittedly, there are not a lot of people in the world doing the 50km walk; but equally there are not a hell of a lot doing the decathlon either. But what is a major event? I don't think the Gotzis IAAF Combined Events Challenge is any more of a major event than the Dudince IAAF Race Walking Challenge. An Olympic/WC gold is still an Olympic/WC gold.

[26mi235]

Saying a gold is a gold and that is the (implicit) full measure is somewhere way beyond what anyone on this board believes, so what is it you are really saying.

In cycling, there are ' a dozen' track Gold medals at the Olympics, but no one in their right mind thinks that they are remotely close to winning the Tour or to winning the Road World Championships. Some medals are worth vastly more than others, and you cannot tell all completely by the number of athletes competing, as the multis have a different set of constraints than many other events. No, is not the 100 (the premier event of premier events) but the decathlon is probably as represented by as many Wheaties covers as any event in track and field or any other sport. And you can count on the the seventh hand of the average human how many Wheaties covers walkers have had...

[Flumpy]

How do you determine what is a major event? Is the 100m more major than the Steeplechase? Does the Steeplechase get more credit than then Hammer??

When it comes to AOY all events should be treated equally.

You shouldn't get extra consideration because your event is more popular.

[Tuariki]

.......... but the decathlon is probably as represented by as many Wheaties covers as any event in track and field or any other sport. And you can count on the the seventh hand of the average human how many Wheaties covers walkers have had...

As usual an American-centri view. I doubt there were too many Wheatie boxes in Poland from 1996 to 2004 with decathletes featured on them But I am willing to bet that Robert Kozeniowski had a profile in Poland during that time somewhat higher than Dan O'Brien.

Rome 1960 Don Thompson had a much higher profile in Great Britain than Rafer Johnson. And in New Zealand in 1956 Norm Read had saturation coverage yet most kiwis had no idea who Mit Campbell was. In New Zealand most people had never heard of Bruce Jenner, they onmly knew Bruce Kardashian and now Caitlyn.

While the decathlon may an iconic event to all of us nutty TNF geeks on this board, the decathlon means diddly squat nothing to most of the great unwashed public.

[andyjgt]

In cycling, there are ' a dozen' track Gold medals at the Olympics, but no one in their right mind thinks that they are remotely close to winning the Tour or to winning the Road World Championships.

The UK thinks they are worth MORE.

Laura Trott, born 1992, OBE for 2 gold medals (one of which wasn't individual) (could be a DAME at 24!)

Jo Rowsell and Dani King, MBE for the same team gold medal won by Trott

Chris Froome, born 1985, NOTHING for LE TOUR! (have to expect him to get something for his 2nd Tour I guess)

(I know Froome may be considered RSA/KEN, but Stuart Abbott got MBE for playing one pool stage match in the 2003 rugby World Cup, and he's RSA too)