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Should NCAA Superstars skip NC's for USATF?

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  • #16
    Several years ago when the USA Indoor meet was being held in Albuquerque we did submit a proposal to USATF to host their meet prior to the NCAA meet, so as many of you are stating the collegiate athletes would be able to compete. Quite frankly, it would be easy to do schedule-wise. Have the USA meet either the third weekend or fourth weekend in February opposite of conference meets. Two things came back to us. First, the NCAA did not want to sanction the meet as an NCAA qualifying meet given international athletes would not be allowed to compete, and thus it would be discriminatory. We requested that USATF change their protocol so this could be addressed - no dice. Secondly, USATF indicated that they didn't want "all" the collegiate athletes in the meet because it would make the meet too large. To say we were flabbergasted would be an understatement. Take a look at field size at the USATF for the last five years? Very, very small field sizes and in some events limited quality. I think it would be a home run for track fans (and athletes).

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tandfman View Post
      Outdoors is a different story. The NCAAs have always preceded the US Nationals, and I can't remember any eligible NCAA athlete ever skipping the NCAAs for the US Nationals/Trials. And there are very few NCAA athletes who have a decent chance of making a US team who stop competing after the NCAA meet when there is a team (World or Olympic) to make.
      But in those years when only couple of weeks separating the NCAA and the trials (e.g. last year) there is a problem with long distance runners and multi-event athletes able to peak for both meets

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Rich22 View Post
        Several years ago when the USA Indoor meet was being held in Albuquerque we did submit a proposal to USATF to host their meet prior to the NCAA meet, so as many of you are stating the collegiate athletes would be able to compete. Quite frankly, it would be easy to do schedule-wise. Have the USA meet either the third weekend or fourth weekend in February opposite of conference meets. Two things came back to us. First, the NCAA did not want to sanction the meet as an NCAA qualifying meet given international athletes would not be allowed to compete, and thus it would be discriminatory. We requested that USATF change their protocol so this could be addressed - no dice. Secondly, USATF indicated that they didn't want "all" the collegiate athletes in the meet because it would make the meet too large. To say we were flabbergasted would be an understatement. Take a look at field size at the USATF for the last five years? Very, very small field sizes and in some events limited quality. I think it would be a home run for track fans (and athletes).
        You wanted the USATF meet the same weekend as conference meets so more NCAA athletes could compete in the USATF meet?

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        • #19
          There's a week off between the two (formerly "Last Chance" weekend, now just IC4A/ECAC).

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          • #20
            Originally posted by KevinM View Post
            There's a week off between the two (formerly "Last Chance" weekend, now just IC4A/ECAC).
            So your best athletes are running multiple events at conference, running at USATF the following weekend and then NCAA's the following week. There may be some events this might work in but I can't see this as something NCAA coaches would be all that fired up about.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
              So your best athletes are running multiple events at conference, running at USATF the following weekend and then NCAA's the following week. There may be some events this might work in but I can't see this as something NCAA coaches would be all that fired up about.
              Indeed. That does not fit into any sort of peaking model I know of. The travel alone would be too disruptive.
              This whole thread is driven by a fan's desire to maximize HIS pleasure, not for the benefit of the athlete or the institutions/he represents, even including the likelihood (difficult as it would be) of winning multiple titles.

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              • #22
                Neither the iUSATF nor the WIC are important events. You can tell this by who participates. No way the NCAA nor its coaches move mountains to have their athletes add two more events onto their busy schedules.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by booond View Post
                  Neither the iUSATF nor the WIC are important events.
                  An outrageous assertion!
                  I totally agree.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by booond View Post
                    Neither the iUSATF nor the WIC are important events. You can tell this by who participates. No way the NCAA nor its coaches move mountains to have their athletes add two more events onto their busy schedules.
                    Well said. If a coach has an athlete who is good enough to qualify for the World Indoor Championships, that athlete might be good enough to qualify for the Olympics, so that coach would have an incentive to keep his/her race count down, not add races at the expense of that athlete's long outdoor season.

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                    • #25
                      Lots of negativity about both the INdoor USATF and INdoor WC here!

                      Go meet Vin Lananna for lunch, and tell that to his face!!

                      LOL

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                      • #26
                        It's not negativity about the meets per se; it's negativity towards the concept that collegiate athletes should give a shit about compromising their scholastic competition/training.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                          Lots of negativity about both the INdoor USATF and INdoor WC here!
                          Not at all. I plan on following both closely and I'm sure I will be highly entertained by what happens at both. For the athletes that choose to go to either, it's a really big deal.
                          But then look at all the elite athletes who bypass them. What does that tell you?
                          Elites don't bypass the OT or the OG, which are, by far (!) MORE important meets for US athletes.

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                          • #28
                            NotDutra5: You obviously did not read what I wrote carefully. We discussed "opposite" weekends as to NOT conflict with conference championships. Many collegiate programs compete the weekend prior to conference championships, albeit with a lighter load, and some of you may have forgotten the recently departed "last chance" meets that collegians competed in. Certainly, not everyone would be interested in competing in both USATF and the NCAA Championships, but I have to believe that it wouldn't be that difficult if intelligent people on both ends sat and discussed how to make them both better. I don't find a problem with that. I know that I have had quite a few athletes that would have competed in both had they had the opportunity. Its not for everyone, but why hurt lets say a 7' 6" high jumper who would like to do both. It simply would be nice.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gh View Post
                              aaron, you're laboring under the misconception that those on the collegiate side (be they coaches or athletes) particularly have a meet like the World Indoor on their radar. Never have, never will, and the collegiate calendar isn't in any way constructed with that meet in mind.
                              Over the last 15 yrs the world indoor and indoor NCAA meets have been on that same weekend which made it an impossibility anyway.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Rich22 View Post
                                NotDutra5: You obviously did not read what I wrote carefully. We discussed "opposite" weekends as to NOT conflict with conference championships.
                                Appears to me you did not write what you meant carefully as it is still unclear which weekend you mean. What is an "opposite" weekend? You mean the week in between conference and nationals or the weekend prior to conference? That would be clear.

                                There are a couple of events this could work in. The overwhelming majority of running events it does not and may not work with some of the jumping events as well. However, you're going to move an entire meet to get one or two guys a shot? The meets could have changed their schedules so that said HJer could jump in one meet one day and the other another day.

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