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  • Increase in DQs, especially relays?

    Has there been a significant increase in DQs, especially relays? If so, is it because video evidence allows countries to file protests and prove their point? Are a lot of things being DQed now that would not have been 20 or 40 years ago?

  • #2
    Without having any stats at hand, it seems to me there are more DQs than usual.. I suspect it is because there is more and better filming...and more post event scrutiny.

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    • #3
      The use of film/video has probably resulted in an expansion of the range where teams are DQ'd. Before officials were probably reticent to DQ a team on something that was close but not certain. What bothers me most is the DQs for the really ticky-tack things like the placement of the teams in the 4x400 because you can end of out of place because of movement by other teams -- gaming to DQ a team which has nothing to do with the underlying event.

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      • #4
        No, I don't believe there are more DQs than there used to be. It varies from event to event, though. In some countries officials are just more picky/ observant than in others. I remember the 1995 WC in Gothenburg as one championship with lots of lane DQs, the most significant being Maria Mutola and Gwen Torrence.

        Cameras were in use both 20 and 40 years ago. Yes, maybe we get better quality pictures from more angles nowadays, but it's not a revolution. And anyway, video evidence is only used to confirm or disprove a rule violation. You still need a human to spot it in the first place - either a race official or someone from a rival team. If we ever get a system which automatically detects lane and handover violations, that will be a real game changer.
        Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Powell View Post
          No, I don't believe there are more DQs than there used to be. It varies from event to event, though. In some countries officials are just more picky/ observant than in others. I remember the 1995 WC in Gothenburg as one championship with lots of lane DQs, the most significant being Maria Mutola and Gwen Torrence.

          Cameras were in use both 20 and 40 years ago. Yes, maybe we get better quality pictures from more angles nowadays, but it's not a revolution. And anyway, video evidence is only used to confirm or disprove a rule violation. You still need a human to spot it in the first place - either a race official or someone from a rival team. If we ever get a system which automatically detects lane and handover violations, that will be a real game changer.
          Maybe a gps for each shoe

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          • #6
            I don't think GPS has that kind of accuracy, at least for now.
            Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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            • #7
              Race umpires are fallible humans.. It would take a sharp eye to catch all of these infractions.. which leads me to suspect someone is watching/reviewing every foot of every race looking for violations..,.
              Last edited by lonewolf; 08-21-2016, 04:42 AM.

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              • #8
                my independent gut reaction was that there were more, although I can't quantify it.

                What they do have now is Hawkeye technology, which provides high-speed-film backup that can catch things that were previously probably undetectable, or not open to question.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by gh View Post
                  my independent gut reaction was that there were more, although I can't quantify it.

                  What they do have now is Hawkeye technology, which provides high-speed-film backup that can catch things that were previously probably undetectable, or not open to question.
                  Do you have clarification on the GB dq in the 4x4? What was the violation and which leg?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                    Race umpires are fallible humans.. It would take a sharp eye to catch all of these infractions.. which leads me to suspect someone is watching/reviewing every foot of every race looking for violations..,.
                    Many of the ones watching, I suspect, are coaches and officials from participating nations, looking hard to see if they can get someone who finished ahead of their runner DQed. I wouldn't be surprised if there were spotters in 4 or more places around the stadium for each country.

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                    • #11
                      Maybe they need to introduce a de minimus rule or exception. For instance, the line in the 4x400 was cited as something that you could not cross even though the 'danger' is minimal if not doing something crazy and running up the track, or using it to take a very long acceleration. Putting in such an exception would keep the rule effective for gross violations while keeping down extremely minor violations of the rules.

                      I was a bit surprised that the baton rule is that it cannot be touched outside the zone rather than it has to be under the control of the incoming runner before the beginning point and not of the outgoing runner (with the hand of the incoming runner coming off.

                      A worrisome aspect of the DQs is that they did not tend to be things affecting the competition. I do not know what led to reversing the DQ in the 5000 but the cones that were down were sparse and so could be missed by the runners in terms of marking the end of the competition area (the track). That is at least in part the fault of the venue and those controlling it. I do not recall for sure, but there might not even have been a line indicating where the edge was. It is hard to be racing at that speed with so many people close and observing something that is not that apparent.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
                        I was a bit surprised that the baton rule is that it cannot be touched outside the zone rather than it has to be under the control of the incoming runner before the beginning point and not of the outgoing runner (with the hand of the incoming runner coming off.
                        The baton exchange is deemed to begin when the outgoing runner touches the baton and end when the incoming runner lets go of it. Both of these must take place within the zone.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Trickstat View Post
                          The baton exchange is deemed to begin when the outgoing runner touches the baton and end when the incoming runner lets go of it. Both of these must take place within the zone.
                          Was that what the ruling was in the 4x400m vs. GB? The baton was passed outside the zone?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NotDutra5 View Post
                            Was that what the ruling was in the 4x400m vs. GB? The baton was passed outside the zone?
                            No, the official IAAF results for the m4x400m sf2 show both GBR & IND DQed for Rule 170.19:

                            19. For the final takeover in the Medley Relay and for all takeovers in the 4 × 400m, 4 × 800m, Distance Medley Relay and 4 × 1500m races, athletes are not permitted to begin running outside their takeover zones, and shall start within this zone. If an athlete does not follow this Rule, his team shall be disqualified."

                            https://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/...ules-2016-2017

                            You're on your own in figuring out precisely what occurred.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Charley Shaffer View Post
                              No, the official IAAF results for the m4x400m sf2 show both GBR & IND DQed for Rule 170.19:

                              19. For the final takeover in the Medley Relay and for all takeovers in the 4 × 400m, 4 × 800m, Distance Medley Relay and 4 × 1500m races, athletes are not permitted to begin running outside their takeover zones, and shall start within this zone. If an athlete does not follow this Rule, his team shall be disqualified."

                              https://www.iaaf.org/news/iaaf-news/...ules-2016-2017

                              You're on your own in figuring out precisely what occurred.
                              I would agree with that (including the figuring out part) except for the fact that the IAAF report of the semis reads like this:

                              There was more drama in the second heat. A thrilling final leg from Martyn Rooney earned Great Britain what appeared to be an impressive heat win. However, their joy was to quickly turn to despair when they were disqualified for taking the baton out of an exchange zone.
                              https://www.iaaf.org/competitions/ol...es-relay/heats

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