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  • "Banned" marks still on lists

    This thread is for getting information only---for my Record Book and lists.

    I thought Rita Jeptoo's 2:18:57 Boston Marathon mark from 2014 was erased, due to her drug ban.
    Ditto with Nadezhda Ostapchuk's OG mark from 2012 of 70-9.75.

    But both are on Tilastopaia's Top 30 World list!!
    And Ostapchuk's mark is still listed as the National Record of Belarus!

    Neither mark is listed in my 2016 Athletics Annual, however.
    Are these just mistakes on Tilastopaia's part??

    ADD: Jeptoo's mark IS listed in my AA book, but under "downhill" marathons!
    And yes, Boston marks are included on Tilastopaia's lists!!

    UGH!
    Another mistake I made.
    Ostapchuk's mark on Tilastopaia's list isn't from the OG, it's from a meet in Minsk---also in 2012.

    But the question remains---weren't ALL her marks from 2012 (& other years) erased??
    Last edited by aaronk; 09-06-2016, 06:25 AM.

  • #2
    Jeptoo was banned by Athletics Kenya for a 2 year period from 30Oct14 through 29Oct16, and while her Chicago win was disqualified, the Boston mark, made 21Apr14, still stands.

    That said, the IAAF appealed the Athletics Kenya ban to CAS, seeking an increased ban (to 4 years) and the disqualification of the Boston 2014 mark. The hearing at CAS was on 07Jul16 and there has not been a ruling yet.

    The hearing was apparently pretty chaotic. Jeptoo’s lawyer resigned shortly before the hearing and she was not represented. She attended by phone briefly and then was disconnected.



    http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_3979_FINAL.pdf


    For Ostapchuk her marks were disqualified from 13Aug05 to 12Aug07 and since 05Aug12.

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    • #3
      Thank you, warmego!!
      Answers both my questions!!

      Ostapchuk's Minsk mark was in July, 2012, so was before the ban starting August 5th!

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      • #4
        And T&FNews has the policy that marks made in a year of a PEDs bust (at least a major one, not for cough medicine?) are not kept on the record list. One example is that the shot put record is not Randy Barnes' mark (23.12) but Timmerman's 23.06 [assuming I remember the details correctly].

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        • #5
          Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
          And T&FNews has the policy that marks made in a year of a PEDs bust (at least a major one, not for cough medicine?) are not kept on the record list. One example is that the shot put record is not Randy Barnes' mark (23.12) but Timmerman's 23.06 [assuming I remember the details correctly].
          You are correct. The T&FN All Time list does not include Barnes' 23.12, but does include Timmerman.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
            And T&FNews has the policy that marks made in a year of a PEDs bust (at least a major one, not for cough medicine?) are not kept on the record list. One example is that the shot put record is not Randy Barnes' mark (23.12) but Timmerman's 23.06 [assuming I remember the details correctly].
            So Tilastopaia's policy must differ from T&FN---in several ways.
            They list Ostapchuk's Minsk mark, as well as Boston marks for the Marathon--so has Jeptoo's mark.
            They also have the Barnes mark as number one.

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            • #7
              So now that you understand the circumstances of Barnes' mark, are you going to let him 'keep' is purloined WR in your books or put an asterisk on Timmerman's mark and note the Barnes' mark for completeness but not recognition?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
                So now that you understand the circumstances of Barnes' mark, are you going to let him 'keep' is purloined WR in your books or put an asterisk on Timmerman's mark and note the Barnes' mark for completeness but not recognition?
                Personally I wish the IAAF would enact a rule that disqualifies all marks of a convicted PED cheat - just remove them from the record book completely

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 26mi235 View Post
                  So now that you understand the circumstances of Barnes' mark, are you going to let him 'keep' is purloined WR in your books or put an asterisk on Timmerman's mark and note the Barnes' mark for completeness but not recognition?
                  One more interesting observation from my study of Tilastopaia's Top 30 A-T lists----
                  While they include the three I mentioned (Barnes, Ostapchuk, Jeptoo), they do NOT list Gwen Berry's 250-4!!!
                  (And yes, that would rank in their Top 30 All-Time Performers!)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                    One more interesting observation from my study of Tilastopaia's Top 30 A-T lists----
                    While they include the three I mentioned (Barnes, Ostapchuk, Jeptoo), they do NOT list Gwen Berry's 250-4!!!
                    (And yes, that would rank in their Top 30 All-Time Performers!)
                    As pointed out in this thread Tilastopaja generally disqualifies marks strictly based upon the dates specified in the ban, resulting in the wiping of Berry's marks from 29March through 28June.

                    Also note if you are comparing your lists to the Tilastopaja Free All-Time top 30: It looks like the Free AT lists do not include anything from 2016 (and are also missing some 2015 marks). Member All-Time Lists, however, are up to date.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wamego relays champ View Post
                      As pointed out in this thread Tilastopaja generally disqualifies marks strictly based upon the dates specified in the ban, resulting in the wiping of Berry's marks from 29March through 28June.

                      Also note if you are comparing your lists to the Tilastopaja Free All-Time top 30: It looks like the Free AT lists do not include anything from 2016 (and are also missing some 2015 marks). Member All-Time Lists, however, are up to date.
                      The free Top 30 lists DO include ALL the top 2016 marks----and 2015 too.
                      Right up to and including GD's 4:14.30 from Rovereto yesterday!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by aaronk View Post
                        The free Top 30 lists DO include ALL the top 2016 marks----and 2015 too.
                        Right up to and including GD's 4:14.30 from Rovereto yesterday!!
                        Interesting. The current marks are certainly there when scrolling the entire list. But selecting an individual event from the pull down menu at the top makes the current marks disappear.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wamego relays champ View Post
                          Interesting. The current marks are certainly there when scrolling the entire list. But selecting an individual event from the pull down menu at the top makes the current marks disappear.
                          Try it again. I just did and found the Rovereto marks there.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tandfman View Post
                            Try it again. I just did and found the Rovereto marks there.
                            I don't know, I must be in the twilight zone.

                            I thought maybe its a browser thing, but alternate browsers are doing the same.

                            The full free list



                            works fine and is complete. When I select any single event from the pull-down menu on top the current marks disappear but the adjusted rankings are correct (see below where Ivan is listed as #3) Strange..


                            One Mile
                            1 4:12.56 WR Svetlana Masterkova RUS 17 Jan 68 1 WK Zürich 14 Aug 1996
                            3 4:15.61 NR Paula Ivan ROU 20 Jul 63 1 Nikaïa Nice 10 Jul 1989
                            4 4:15.8h NUR Natalya Artyomova RUS 5 Jan 63 1 Leningrad 5 Aug 1984

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                            • #15
                              Sorry. I hadn't realized earlier that you were talking about the all-time lists, rather than the year lists. But I just went in again and looked at the all-time outdoor list, and the Dibaba mark in Rovereto is definitely there.

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