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  • Spanovic's 7.10

    at a 'street meet' in Belgrade Sunday . . . on a raised runway . . . not a fan. It has become abundantly clear (to me), empirically speaking, that some raised runways afford jumpers a 'mechanical' advantage. To accept as an outdoor NR is (to me) problematic.

    Any physics professors here who can explain how a 'bouncy board' runway/HJ apron can help a jumper?

    I have competed off board runways and yes, some were 'dead', but others made me feel much more springy in approach and jump. My indoor HJ exceeds my outdoor one.
    Last edited by Atticus; 09-13-2016, 04:15 PM.

  • #2
    if it's "bouncy" then it's illegal and shouldn't be record-viable.

    Comment


    • #3
      There's a difference between 'sprung', on which gymnastics floor exercise is competed (hence the ridiculous height Bile got on her tumbling runs), and just 'bouncy' board runways. Or is there a test that IAAF has on what is a legal runway or not?

      Arnstadt is Exhibit A in my case against some indoor venues:

      2.40 UKHOV 2014
      2.40 DMITRIK 2014
      2.38 RYBAKOV 2007
      2.37 RYBAKOV 2005
      2.37 BÁBA 2005
      2.37 RYBAKOV 2006
      2.37 UKHOV 2006
      2.37 RYBAKOV 2007
      2.37 HOLM 2007
      2.37 SILNOV 2008

      What is the composition of the takeoff there? Maybe this is sheer imagination on my part, but it seems we often see recurring outliers on indoor venues.
      Last edited by Atticus; 09-13-2016, 06:08 PM.

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      • #4
        Rule 211.4:

        The foundation on which the synthetic surface of the tracks, runways and take-off areas is laid shall be either solid e.g. concrete or, if of suspended construction (such as wooden boards or plywood sheets mounted on joists), without any special sprung sections and, as far as technically possible, each runway shall have a uniform resilience throughout. This shall be checked, for the take-off area for the jumps, before each competition.

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        • #5
          if of suspended construction (such as wooden boards or plywood sheets mounted on joists), without any special sprung sections and, as far as technically possible, each runway shall have a uniform resilience throughout.
          So we're right back where I started. There are indoor runways (not sprung - which would be unmanageable anyway, cuz they'd throw the approach off too) that are very bouncy/springy as the boards compress and rebound. I know there are situations where the compression attenuates the kinetic force of the athlete, but there are also situations where the force is returned . . . and that's aiding.

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          • #6
            If there is no bounce in the takeoff board, what difference does it make if the runup is on a trampoline?

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            • #7
              there is no "takeoff board" in the vertical jumps, but your point is well taken. Indeed, any sprung-nature on the LJ/TJ runway before the board is likely to be more of a negative than a positive.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                If there is no bounce in the takeoff board, what difference does it make if the runup is on a trampoline?
                But there IS 'bounce' in the take-off board, just as there is in the runway. I've seen indoor meets where the board definitely 'compresses', exactly as the runway does.

                Are y'all saying you've never noticed it??!!

                Obviously I have gone stark raving mad, if no one else has never noticed that raised indoor runways and boards are not 'solid' like outdoor ones. There are trusses underneath the runway, but it certainly is not a solid mass like outdoors. Serissally?
                Last edited by Atticus; 09-14-2016, 02:14 AM.

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                • #9
                  it doesn't have to be a "solid mass"; so long as the supporting timber(s) under the runway run parallel to the structures holding up the left and right margins, no bounce is possible. If it's supported by perpendicular crosspieces and they're too far apart, then yes, flexing is possible.

                  This is what, the 227th discussion on this you've participated in all these years and you keep getting the same answer?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gh View Post
                    This is what, the 227th discussion on this you've participated in all these years and you keep getting the same answer?
                    You're right; I give up; it's all in my imagination; it's all a recurring hallucination; sorry to have wasted the electrons in posting my drivel . . .

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                    • #11
                      Years ago, the original LJ runways in Tyson Center at Univ Arkansas were criticized as being bouncy.They increased and beefed up the support transoms, especially under the board, and I do not believe there is a mm of bounce in the take off boards now.

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                      • #12
                        Remember Sebastian Bayer's 28+' German NIR? gh immediately pointed out some "bounce" on the take-off board and predicted--correctly--that Bayer wouldn't come close to that mark again. So it seems that "bounce" continues to be an issue indoors... Or on a runway such as Spanovic's...

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                        • #13
                          Same thing with the 2004 WIC in Budapest, where Lebedeva and Olsson set WIRs.
                          Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                          • #14
                            The 1960 AAU Decathlon/OlyTrials had a special Bowerman twist: the entire LJ setup was up above the track under the lip of the old East grandstand. The equivalent of an indoor setup of the times, and plenty springy: I and several others added nearly a foot to PBs, and Mike Herman's WR of nearly 8m stood more than 50 yrs., until Ashton Eaton took it out in 2012.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lonewolf View Post
                              Years ago, the original LJ runways in Tyson Center at Univ Arkansas were criticized as being bouncy.
                              Originally posted by Grazerite View Post
                              Remember Sebastian Bayer's 28+' German NIR? gh immediately pointed out some "bounce" on the take-off board and predicted--correctly--that Bayer wouldn't come close to that mark again. So it seems that "bounce" continues to be an issue indoors... Or on a runway such as Spanovic's...
                              Originally posted by Powell View Post
                              Same thing with the 2004 WIC in Budapest, where Lebedeva and Olsson set WIRs.
                              Originally posted by Jackaloupe View Post
                              The 1960 AAU Decathlon/OlyTrials had a special Bowerman twist: the entire LJ setup was up above the track under the lip of the old East grandstand. The equivalent of an indoor setup of the times, and plenty springy: I and several others added nearly a foot to PBs, and Mike Herman's WR of nearly 8m stood more than 50 yrs., until Ashton Eaton took it out in 2012.
                              Oh wait, what's this? Mass hallucinations, including our own gh??!!

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