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  • "New Millennium" World Records.

    Story on the front page.

    I see this proposal as punishing clean WR holders for failing to catch the cheats.

  • #2
    I cant really see how we can say with any confidence which WRs are clean, tbh (and which are dirty). With what we now know about Russia and their state sponsored system; with evidence that Ethiopia, Kenya and Jamaica and others had a serious lack of testing over recent years and then things like BALCO in the 90's/00's, God knows which are clean and which aren't.
    Scrapping them will make a minor difference; it may remove 'certain' tainted WRs, for which we now have 'solid' evidence (GDR...RUS...) but the lack of appetite to really punish Kenya, Ethiopia and other countries when there has been buggar all testing will just mean those who choose to cheat from certain countries will be WR holders.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by beebee View Post
      Story on the front page.
      I see this proposal as punishing clean WR holders for failing to catch the cheats.
      We've hashed thru this before. New WRs would be an ostrich-head-in-the-sand move, which would punish the innocent (clean WR-holders from the past) and reward the dirty (say all new records are clean). Imagine what happens when a new WR-holder is later found to be dirty. Now ALL the new records are 'worthless' too.
      There are records across almost all sports that are dirty. To throw out the good with the bad is pointless. Find a dirty record, expunge it. Have no evidence against it, keep it.

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      • #4
        To throw out the old records would be mistake. To create a second set of records would not.

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        • #5
          Do we really suspect Mike Powell of using PED's?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Karl View Post
            Do we really suspect Mike Powell of using PED's?
            Or Jonathan Edwards?

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            • #7
              If Powell's jump (8.95/29' 4½) is replaced, then the new millennium record would belong to Dwight Phillips (8.74/28' 8¼).

              In the shot, Joe Kovacs (22.56/74' 0¼) would replace Randy Barnes (23.12/75' 10¼). Or would it belong to Kevin Toth and his BALCO tainted (22.67/74' 4½)?

              I can't wait for the Hammer Throw re-writes.
              Last edited by br; 01-06-2017, 07:56 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by br View Post
                I can't wait for the Hammer Throw re-writes.
                The millenium WR would be Devyatovskiy's 84.90 from 2005. I believe he tested positive that year, but won a CAS case and was reinstated.
                Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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                • #9
                  what the new millennium records look like

                  http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/ind...ords-anew-2000

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gh View Post
                    what the new millennium records look like

                    http://www.trackandfieldnews.com/ind...ords-anew-2000
                    There's some mistakes.

                    Ruth Jebet ran 8:52 not 8:51.

                    As for the mile, the fastest belongs to G Dibaba with a 4:14 last year after Rio. If you include indoors, it will be 4:13 last year too.

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                    • #11
                      Why should Powell be viewed any differently to anyone else?

                      One could look at the all time list and see that it is dominated by performances from the 80s and early 90s, just like any other tainted event. So why would the LJ be any different?
                      Phillips 'millennium WR' is 21cm behind. That's a HUGE difference.

                      As for Edwards and the TJ, again, why should we assume he is clean? Because he was a practising Christian? Because he was British, and a nice chap? The TJ is dominated less by early performances and we have seen some great jumps recently, but that 18.29 does stand out.

                      We can't make any assumptions based on how nice someone is, just as we can't because of what I have written above. And that's the point.
                      Last edited by Gabriella2; 01-10-2017, 06:22 AM.

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                      • #12
                        It has nothing to do with their personalities or beliefs. Mike Powell clearly had one amazing night, one of those legendary moments that will always define his career. Looking at his physique over time, his performances before and after Tokyo, and the fact that except for that night he lived in the shadow of Carl Lewis, including a year later when Lewis took Olympic gold, no one raised an eyebrow.

                        It's simply not the career arc normally displayed by PED users (and again, his physique hardly changed)

                        The point is simply this: it's generally accepted that Powell had that Beamonesque moment, but can any of us really say it ever crossed our minds that he was on PEDs?

                        There's simply none of the usual suspicious wonderment hanging over Powell.

                        In fact, if it were to come out that he did in fact use PEDs, we'd likely be scratching our heads wondering what good it did him. It just doesn't add up.

                        And I totally understand that these would be very weak arguments if there had been evidence presented against him. Were I a lawyer trying to prove his innocence against a body of failed drug tests and the like, I would sound quite lame.

                        But that's not the case. My whole sentiment here is simply, "C'mon! None of us ever thought for a moment he was on PEDs."
                        Last edited by Karl; 01-10-2017, 11:47 AM.

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                        • #13
                          and that's enough speculation. thus endeth the lesson.

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