Monza2 - all engines will be firing

[cubehead]

I don't care if they run 26 miles 385yds straight downhill in bouncy shoes, juiced to the gills with a tailwind and a phalanx of pacers, they will not break 2:00.00

I don't think they will either...

Frankly I'll be impressed if they run the first half in under 60.

[Tuariki]

Everything I have read agrees with you. It's a proof of concept. As such, the mechanics of the run should comply with all rules: not downhill, not point-to-point, no illegal equipment, no pacers jumping in en route etc.

But it will not be a record because the field will not participate in a race. Berlin was a race, Kipsang repeatedly surging to try to break Bekele. This will be a cooperative effort, not bona fide competition, and only record-eligible if there is a category of the dullest 2:0x:xx ever.

I feel very confident that while they may assist / pace each other up to 35km, from that point on they will start facing. The very nature of human competitiveness will see to that.

In other words it will be a race.

[lonewolf]

I don't care if they run 26 miles 385yds straight downhill in bouncy shoes, juiced to the gills with a tailwind and a phalanx of pacers, they will not break 2:00.00

[cubehead]

I don't have time to go looking to confirm it, but I believe Nike said from the get-go that an official record wasn't part of the plan: it's seeing if under optimal conditions somebody can break 2 hours.

So it's a legal loop course....no pacers jumping in during the race...no pacing behind a bicycle...or anything like that...But it won't count because they are not racing each other...okay...what if at the end they decide to sprint for it does that count?

That makes zero sense...there must be something else going on as to conditions that they have not announced most likely to do with pacers.

PS As to 'illegal' shoes...who decides...what laboratory...when was the last time a shoe was declared illegal since brush spikes were banned...crikey they took forever deciding whether Bladeguy's metal legs were legit.

[Master403]

I don't have time to go looking to confirm it, but I believe Nike said from the get-go that an official record wasn't part of the plan: it's seeing if under optimal conditions somebody can break 2 hours.

Everything I have read agrees with you. It's a proof of concept. As such, the mechanics of the run should comply with all rules: not downhill, not point-to-point, no illegal equipment, no pacers jumping in en route etc.

But it will not be a record because the field will not participate in a race. Berlin was a race, Kipsang repeatedly surging to try to break Bekele. This will be a cooperative effort, not bona fide competition, and only record-eligible if there is a category of the dullest 2:0x:xx ever.

[Alan Shank]

If they don't care about the official record, they can just have "serial" pacemakers, so they always have a fresh set, perhaps 4-5 abreast providing drafting for the "Big Three".
Cheers,
Alan Shank 62
Woodland, CA, USA

[gh]

.....
2) Records must be set in bona fide competition. The project seems to be acknowledging that the field (excluding the legal pacemakers) will be acting in concert to break a record, not to race each other. But what defines bona fide?...

I don't have time to go looking to confirm it, but I believe Nike said from the get-go that an official record wasn't part of the plan: it's seeing if under optimal conditions somebody can break 2 hours.

[Master403]

I don't understand the physics of Einstein's bagels.

What exactly makes it record ineligible--some type (prototype) shoes? I'm trying to recall the details from original article...and failing in memory.

The very two questions you raised about this effort are general ones I asked our IAAF reps a few months ago, before we knew about this project.

1) IAAF Competition Rules used to have prohibitions against springs and things in shoes. They now have
"Athletes may compete barefoot or with footwear on one or both feet. The purpose of shoes for competition is to give protection and stability to the feet and a firm grip on the ground. Such shoes, however, must not be constructed so as to give an athlete any unfair additional assistance, including by the incorporation of any technology which will give the wearer any unfair advantage. A shoe strap over the instep is permitted. All types of competition shoes must be approved by IAAF."
IAAF has not yet, according to several news reports, approved the Nike Vaporfly Elite.

2) Records must be set in bona fide competition. The project seems to be acknowledging that the field (excluding the legal pacemakers) will be acting in concert to break a record, not to race each other. But what defines bona fide?

Both pieces of your question are interesting because Competition Rules are generally intended to be specific and unambiguous. Here we have, twice, versions of "I know it when I see it."

[exdrake]

I don't understand the physics of Einstein's bagels.

What exactly makes it record ineligible--some type (prototype) shoes? I'm trying to recall the details from original article...and failing in memory.

[Master403]

After all Mosop ran 1:27:27 for 30k on 75 laps with 150 180 degree turns as you guys want to put it.

And if he had continued at that pace for 40.65% more (12.195 km) he would have run 2:03:00.

[cubehead]

There obviously are some constraints, not everything will be perfect, like every laboratory experiment, which this is. A dead flat straight road might be preferable but wind conditions would be unpredictable. This course seems the optimal choice. It's almost exactly what I thought they would choose.
Those turns are so gentle that no one will notice.

[Atticus]

That is one of my favorite typos ever.

Ha! Even a factor of 4-5 relative to a 500' radius is indeed still very impressive.

[Master403]

Looking at the Google Earth picture, I would guess that the radius of that turn is on the order of 500', so 4-5 times as genital as a track turn.

That is one of my favorite typos ever.

[26mi235]

A track has a curve length of about 105m, so 2 * pi * r = 210 => r ~ 33m, or 110'. Looking at the Google Earth picture, I would guess that the radius of that turn is on the order of 500', so 4-5 times as genital as a track turn. The top, 90deg turn is tighter by a factor of 2 but is only 90 deg, not 180. The other curves can be finessed, going through a tangent. They will have to carefully measure the course because the actual running distance is not 2.40000km. I presume that they will put in the 0.1% buffer, but they might not given that this does not 'count' for records and save themselves five seconds.

[AS]

An exciting concept and if marketed right, which I am sure it will be given the event belongs to Nike, it will attract a live TV audience in the hundreds of millions.

I think the more accurate statement would be "Nike will CLAIM a live TV audience in the hundreds of millions."