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¶2017 WC m400H: Karsten Warholm (Norway) 48.35

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  • Originally posted by nikbonaddio View Post
    Either way, I think a lot of you are being way too harsh on Warholm. Dude is a baby at the event, running on what certainly appears to be a slow-ish track, in terrible conditions.
    Of course you are right. Imagine the ejaculatory paroxysms if Ashton Eaton had competed this year in the 400mH and improved his PB by 0.35 to outdip Warholm. Superb run, what a fantastic time for an ex-decathlete, a true reflection of exceptional talent, big time performer, brilliant time in the wet, what will he achieve next year....etc.

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    • Originally posted by etuoyo View Post
      If he was third he would have ended up in one of the 2 inside lanes and had very little chance in the finals...
      some speculation is in order, there is a reason that Clement took that semi out so hard. I think it was a big mistake, (athletes over estimate their own fitness) .. .He gambled that he was a more fit and seasoned athlete than Warholm and that if the race could be boiled down more to conditioning and execution than to flat speed and athleticism that he would win. To do that he had to bring the young buck into the deep water ... and then drown him in the final.

      On the surface it was a solid strategy, except that his own fitness was not what he thought it was and he was left gasping more than the young fellow coming down the straight.

      Once again youth wins out over savvy and cunning. 7 years ago at his best Clement would have won this race and had something to spare, but he is not what he used to be. Father time tapped on his shoulder coming around that 300m mark and Clement turned back to look.

      Warholm looks like an off the charts fantastic athlete, but he is in an event that he doesnt even look perfectly suited to. Exactly how tall is he ? He just doesnt look the 6-2 he is listed at. If he is 6-2 I could easily seem him getting down to 47mid soon. That he could do what he has done in the 400h in such a short time in the event is so remarkable.

      Actually I should be careful with the height issue. We had Matete, Tamasue and Bershawn.
      Last edited by user4; 08-10-2017, 01:28 PM.

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      • Tilastopaja lists him as 5-9! (1.75). He certainly looks taller than that, at least 6-0, based on how he looked stood next to Iwan Thomas (6-2), but not quite 6-2.

        Add Mori (5-9) for short 400Hers.

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        • Originally posted by user4 View Post
          some speculation is in order, ...

          On the surface it was a solid strategy, except that his own fitness was not what he thought it was and he was left gasping more than the young fellow coming down the straight...
          Speculate all you want, but you're wrong. The only thing that kept Clement from winning was his stutter at the 10th hurdle. Nothing to do with fitness, etc.

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          • He said the mistake was using the non dominant leg. While probably true at that moment, the underlying issue is not having made that non dominant leg better/more proficient over the years and having to overly rely on the right lead leg.

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            • Warholm's victory, like many others in this meet, strikes me, moreso than in other global champs, that he was the best ON THIS DAY, but may or may not be the best overall. The Rankings this year should be very interesting. 48.35, even in this cool weather (the wet track is much less a factor than most people imagine), is, as been pointed out before, not an eye-popping result . . . unless we ascribe all the many (!) sub-48 performances of the past as suspect.

              On the hand, he, like J Edwards, is a great example of how an entirely ordinary-looking athlete can be a champion!!

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              • Originally posted by andyjgt View Post
                Tilastopaja lists him as 5-9! (1.75). He certainly looks taller than that, at least 6-0, based on how he looked stood next to Iwan Thomas (6-2), but not quite 6-2.

                Add Mori (5-9) for short 400Hers.
                Karsten Warholm height is 1.87 cm which translates to abt. 6.1 and a half i think - according to usual mentions by commentators on TV. But on his Norwegian wikipedia he is listed as 1.86 cm which is probably 6.1 feet.

                Ive seen him next to other people i know the aproximate height of, and 186/187 cm seems excactly what i would estimate.
                Last edited by Loggins; 08-10-2017, 04:56 PM.
                -- God is a word - life is reality --

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                • Originally posted by Atticus View Post
                  Warholm's victory..
                  On the hand, he, like J Edwards, is a great example of how an entirely ordinary-looking athlete can be a champion!!
                  Putting Warholm in the same two paragraphs as Jonathan Edwards...that is just plain wrong.

                  For one, Warholm looks like 10x the athlete as Edwards, ... but he is not yet 1/10 the champion.

                  Originally posted by gm View Post
                  Speculate all you want, but you're wrong. The only thing that kept Clement from winning was his stutter at the 10th hurdle. Nothing to do with fitness, etc.
                  I have watched the race a few times, I dont see it, remove that studder and maybe he gets a lean for the win, but it is not obvious. Of course we are all speculating.. nothing wrong with that and I appreciate your speculations!
                  Last edited by user4; 08-10-2017, 05:03 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by gm View Post
                    Speculate all you want, but you're wrong. The only thing that kept Clement from winning was his stutter at the 10th hurdle. Nothing to do with fitness, etc.
                    I concur. He hits that last hurdle smooth & in stride, He ends up winning the race. Simple as that.

                    But, he didn't and we saw what happened.

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                    • The way I see the rankings:
                      #1 is so clear it's not even funny.
                      #2 is interesting. Copello is 2-1 against Clement and has the better WC medal; but Clement has one win at a DL meet (ahead of Copello) and a slightly better sequence of times. Copello's general head-to-head is better, but Clement's head-to-head against McMaster is better.

                      I'd say if Clement wins the DL final and beats Copello in it he's probably #2; but if he doesn't win the DL final he should be #3, even if he still beats Copello. If he beats Copello in more than one late-season meet but doesn't win the DL final it will be very close.

                      McMaster didn't qualify for the DL final; but if someone scratches (letting him in) and he wins, defeating both Copello and Clement, that's a possible curveball. At that point McMaster has the next-most-important win outside the WCs, the best sequence of times, a 1-1 head-to-head against Clement and 2-0 against Copello (and 1-0 against Warholm); which would make for some very interesting ranking. (Warholm would still be safe as #1 because his head-to-head against everybody other than McMaster would be too good; but a case could be made for putting McMaster anywhere from 2nd to 4th.)
                      Last edited by LopenUupunut; 08-10-2017, 05:20 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by user4 View Post


                        I have watched the race a few times, I dont see it, remove that studder and maybe he gets a lean for the win, but it is not obvious. Of course we are all speculating.. nothing wrong with that and I appreciate your speculations!
                        Sure, it's obvious. Over the last hurdle Clement is forced to lead with his left. Watch how he handles that! As awkward as he always was. He just never could alternate.
                        How about his own explanation. He did not mean to do that "the left leg just came up" Amazing!
                        Warholm is exactly 1.86 (shade over 6-1) He is just harmoniously built, so in isolation he might look shorter than he is.

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                        • Dem Viking horns were hilarious! <:-) Can you think of a more appropriate way to celebrate? I like to see more of that at the end of a race.

                          What are the odds on him going 47.xx at next year's Euros?

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                          • Originally posted by Per Andersen View Post
                            Sure, it's obvious. Over the last hurdle Clement is forced to lead with his left. Watch how he handles that! As awkward as he always was. He just never could alternate.
                            How about his own explanation. He did not mean to do that "the left leg just came up" Amazing!
                            Warholm is exactly 1.86 (shade over 6-1) He is just harmoniously built, so in isolation he might look shorter than he is.
                            Clement also insisted that he would have taken the gold if he didnt make that mistake. But isnt that mistake just the thing you do if you are tired? if you dont have enough gas in the tank
                            -- God is a word - life is reality --

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                            • Hes a newbie -- id guess a 46x in two years -- and hes still running the 400 -- how about a low 44
                              -- God is a word - life is reality --

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                              • Originally posted by CookyMonzta View Post
                                Dem Viking horns were hilarious! <:-) Can you think of a more appropriate way to celebrate? I like to see more of that at the end of a race.

                                What are the odds on him going 47.xx at next year's Euros?
                                I'd say pretty good if he can run 48.3 in pouring rain and cold! With him and the other guy who was dqed (forget his name, british virgin islands) the leading times in the next couple years should be looking good! And then there's the young Americans, might be a couple years but there's a few NCAA athletes that will be looking to take over from Clement and Batman

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