Berlin Marathon 2017

[gh]

Love Shorter but why would one consider him the GOAT?

my reaction too

[Master Po]

I don't consider Shorter the GOAT (not sure bobguild76 did either), but Shorter would be on my all-time-top-several list, behind the GOAT. Maybe I am too dumb to understand history, or just have low standards, but I always thought he was pretty good, 1971-1976. I guess I am just a sucker for those OG medals and wins at Fukuoka.

For me, Bikila is the GOAT, and after that, I don't know how to order things, except I would include the same names bobguild76 included, in some order or another, including some others I suppose I could come up with.

[bambam1729]

Appears Milne didn't even run the race!!
Just re-checked ALL the leaderboard splits---and Milne's name is GONE!!
So either the leaderboard is all wrong, or ""Milne" doesn't exist!!!

Well, we still enjoyed your excitement over his record run.

[bambam1729]

Love Shorter but why would one consider him the GOAT?

I could make a case for him being up there. Olympic gold, 2nd Olympic gold denied by Cierpinski, and we know what that meant. Won Fukuoka 4 consecutive times when it was considered a de facto World Championship. Fairly strong credentials. I won't put him above Bikila or Kipchoge but he's up there.

[bambam1729]

I don't consider Shorter the GOAT (not sure bobguild76 did either), but Shorter would be on my all-time-top-several list, behind the GOAT. Maybe I am too dumb to understand history, or just have low standards, but I always thought he was pretty good, 1971-1976. I guess I am just a sucker for those OG medals and wins at Fukuoka.

For me, Bikila is the GOAT, and after that, I don't know how to order things, except I would include the same names bobguild76 included, in some order or another, including some others I suppose I could come up with.

I think it either Bikila or Kipchoge. Not sure how to separate them.

[bobguild76]

Love Shorter but why would one consider him the GOAT?

I do not consider Shorter the GOAT, but I see him as one of the three best. Shorter, along with Bikila and Kipchoge, were the three most dominant during their respective careers. As T&FN said of Shorter, when they selected him as the #6 overall athlete of the 70's, "He entered 13 races: in the 11 in which he wasn't injured he finished 1st 9 times and 2nd twice." One of those 2nd places was in his debut marathon, the other was the silver (to Cierpinski) in the '76 OG.

In the five years he ran the marathon, his lowest placing on the year-end time list was 4th, so he was fast as well. He won Fukuoka 4 times in a row, when it was the de-facto World Championship in non-Olympic years. He did not have the WR's of Bikila, nor the multiple fast times of Kipchoge, but he ran before there were pacers in the marathon, and the only times he won by less than 30 seconds were the '72 and '76 OT's, when he ran with Moore & Rodgers respectively, simply to qualify for the OG. I wonder what his times would have been had he forsook the 5/10k, concentrated solely on the marathon, and had the benefit of both pacers and the drink supplements we have today.

If I were ranking the best, I would probably go Bikila - Kipchoge - Shorter - Wanjiru. If Kipchoge wins London next year and/or breaks the WR, I may do the unthinkable and put Bikila at #2. That being said, all four of them are/were incredible!

[Bob Duncan]

There was a point late in the race today when I thought about Shorter and Cierpinski in '76.

That said, it's Sunday night and I'm still buzzin' from the race.

1. Performance of the Year
2. AOY
3. Oscar for Best Performance in a Drama

Let's face it, that was the most entertaining moment in our sport for the year. Fantastic race coverage on NBC Sports Gold with the Brits doing what they do best.

At this point, it doesn't matter whether Kipchoge ever gets the WR.

[Alan Shank]

I will take my $750...cool $250 profit!

So, you got 1-to-2 odds. That would be a fair bet (i.e. no vig) if Bekele had a .33 probability of winning.
1/3 x -500 = -166.66
2/3 x +125 = +166.66

Since his probability of winning was almost certainly considerably lower than that, whoever gave you those odds was foolish, it seems to me. Giving him a .33 probability of winning is like saying that only he, Kipchoge and Kipsang had any chance of winning, and each was equally likely. What about all the other runners, like Adola, for instance?

If Bekele's probability of winning was .2, a fair bet would be:
.2 x -500 = -100
.8 x +125 = +100
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

[Karl]

When my little boy inevitably asks me what consistency means, I'm going to show him a picture of Eliud Kipchoge.

If he then asks me who that is, I'll probably hang my head in shame.

[KDFINE]

Any explanations yet from Bekele or Kipsang as to their decisions to DNF?

[NotDutra5]

Any explanations yet from Bekele or Kipsang as to their decisions to DNF?

I know this goes against the general idea of the sport but it is such with an elite marathoner that a DNF is better than a 6th place 2:06 effort in terms of what it takes out of the body. The fact that they didn't finish once they were out of the running didn't surprise me at all.

[Conor Dary]

I know this goes against the general idea of the sport but it is such with an elite marathoner that a DNF is better than a 6th place 2:06 effort in terms of what it takes out of the body. The fact that they didn't finish once they were out of the running didn't surprise me at all.

Makes perfect sense these days....

[KDFINE]

I'm aware that sometimes a guy gives up the ghost when he doesn't have it, to save himself for another (pay)day. But my query had to do with any actual explanations of causes (e.g. bllster, stomach ailment, leg pain, etc.) rather than simply "I was getting beaten."

[TN1965]

I'm aware that sometimes a guy gives up the ghost when he doesn't have it, to save himself for another (pay)day. But my query had to do with any actual explanations of causes (e.g. bllster, stomach ailment, leg pain, etc.) rather than simply "I was getting beaten."

Kipsang had some stomach issues, according to Toni Reavis.

https://tonireavis.com/2017/09/24/mo...in/#more-17815

[thedoorknobbroke]

So, you got 1-to-2 odds. That would be a fair bet (i.e. no vig) if Bekele had a .33 probability of winning.
1/3 x -500 = -166.66
2/3 x +125 = +166.66

Since his probability of winning was almost certainly considerably lower than that, whoever gave you those odds was foolish, it seems to me. Giving him a .33 probability of winning is like saying that only he, Kipchoge and Kipsang had any chance of winning, and each was equally likely. What about all the other runners, like Adola, for instance?

If Bekele's probability of winning was .2, a fair bet would be:
.2 x -500 = -100
.8 x +125 = +100
Cheers,
Alan Shank
Woodland, CA, USA

a relatively small casino in a relatively small city in NV...doubt they would do it again