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  • Men's Marathon Rankings

    David Graham (as usual) did a great job of ranking the 2017 marathon seasons. It raised some questions for me ...

    1. Should we count the 2:00:25 in the rankings? If so, Kipchoge is a slam dunk #1. If not, as Graham pointed out, 1 and 2 could go either way, Kipchoge or Kirui.

    2. Should it qualify for POY? gh addressed this earlier in the year, but now that it is time for voters to put their choices down, I wonder how many will consider it a vote-worthy performance.

    3. How will the 2:00:25 impact Kipchoge's ranking in the AOY voting? If one counts it, I could see him in the top 5. If not, a single, non-WR marathon probably doesn't get him in the top 10.

  • #2
    Originally posted by bobguild76 View Post
    ....
    3. How will the 2:00:25 impact Kipchoge's ranking in the AOY voting? If one counts it, I could see him in the top 5. If not, a single, non-WR marathon probably doesn't get him in the top 10.
    say what?! Kipchoge's "single non-WR marathon" was the yearly world leader and the No. 7 performance in history (legal courses).

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    • #3
      Originally posted by gh View Post
      say what?! Kipchoge's "single non-WR marathon" was the yearly world leader and the No. 7 performance in history (legal courses).
      I agree! Berlin was an awesome performance, and given the weather conditions, I would put it in my top 5 for POY as well as put him in the top 10, but I am biased towards the marathon.

      But, in looking back through the rankings, I don't see anyone in the AOY top 10 based on one marathon. On the women's side, we had Paula as AOY (2002) with her 2:17, but that was buttressed with her 10k credentials. In 2003, even her 2:15 was not enough to get her in the Top 10 AOY. I disagreed with that assessment at the time, but that is why I said Kipchoge might not make the top 10. If Paula's (POD) 2:15 wasn't enough, Kipchoge's 2:03 might not make it either.
      Last edited by bobguild76; 12-17-2017, 05:39 PM.

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      • #4
        IMHO, we should not count Kipchoge's 2:00:25. Is 10k road (or cross country) counted for the 10000m rankings?

        He ran the same distance as a marathon. That's where the similarity ends. Whether he should still be ranked ahead of Kirui is another question.

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        • #5
          I was very interested in the "Breaking 2" project, and extremely impressed with Kipchoge's performance. Just noting that to make clear that I was not 'dismissive in general' about the overall project/event/performance. But with that noted, it was not a record-eligible event, and thus regarding POY and AOY considerations it is in the same category (for me) as someone running/throwing something really impressive in a windy performance, or an altitude performance, etc. It may be really impressive, and entertaining, and perhaps even thought-provoking, but it doesn't count in this particular context.

          Finally, I should note that I don't have a vote in any of this. Just one fan's opinion from the cheap seats.

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          • #6
            Just thinking about some of the others who might be world-ranked in the marathon.

            Geoffrey Kirui (1st Boston, gold WC) has been mentioned, above, and seems a good candidate for #1 or #2, as noted.

            One might also consider in the rankings -- not arguing for top spots, but in the top group:

            Tamirat Tola (1st Dubai 2:04:11; silver WC)
            Lawrence Cherono (2nd Rotterdam 2:06:21; 1st Amsterdam 2:05:09; 1st Honolulu 2:08:27 -- Honolulu not a big-time marathon, but that 2:08 smashed the course record).
            Wilson Kipsang (1st Tokyo 2:03:58; 2nd NYC)

            Would any of you rank Rupp?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Master Po View Post
              it was not a record-eligible event, and thus regarding POY and AOY considerations it is in the same category (for me) as someone running/throwing something really impressive in a windy performance, or an altitude performance, etc. It may be really impressive, and entertaining, and perhaps even thought-provoking, but it doesn't count in this particular context
              A wind- or altitude-aided performance would still count towards event rankings in the honors won and head-to-head categories, though. So would Kipchoge be given the credit for beating Tadese and Desisa by a huge margin, or should this race be ignored altogether?
              Było smaszno, a jaszmije smukwijne...

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              • #8
                You could run a 1:55 at Boston and it would not be a record-eligible performance. You could run a 3:20 indoor 1500 and it would not count for a world indoor record. If someone runs 9.49/2.2w it would not count as a record. Each of
                of these would be, hands down, the POY. If someone runs a 55:00 Half Marathon, it would also be a great performance even though it is not either a marathon or a track race, does that make it any less a great performance?

                As for Rupp, he is worthy of consideration, having won a WMM in a convincing fashion. I do not have the full set of candidates but I think fast times on an extremely fast course with a lot of rabbits does not particularly count a whole lot more than winning the race if there is a really good field. Without a decent field it is easier to run a fast race, look at Kipchoge's comments on that topic.

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                • #9
                  I am pretty certain that my opinion matters for nothing, but I should clarify at least what I poorly expressed above about the 'breaking 2' marathon.

                  I realize that Boston is also not record-eligible course, but it is a marathon race, and it's elevation drop and point-to-point issues are its 'issues' regarding record-eligibility. A record-eligible course that is speedway flat, with pacers to 30-ish km is OK. A course that violates elevation or start-finish locations is not OK for records, even if it does not have pacers. And I am OK with both of those.

                  I realize there were in fact 3 athletes in the 'breaking 2' marathon, but otherwise it was not set up as a competition first. We have a range of criteria that are considered for record-eligibility, but in there we assume we are talking about athletics competitions -- races. But the 'breaking 2' event was barely a race at all, having the greatest pacing advantages ever designed, and a special system for delivering nutrition, some flexibility on when the event would even be run, etc. These controls made it more like a laboratory event than a marathon competition. It was primarily set up for Mr. Kipchoge, for whom I have nothing but respect and admiration, by the way.

                  Boston and NYC marathons are not record-eligible, but they are more like London and Berlin and other marathons; and the 'breaking 2' event is less like any of those, except for the distance. Kipchoge made a great performance there, and in my (value-less) opinion, it does not count for POY. I would, however, be inclined to consider his Berlin performance, despite how 'slow' it was.
                  Last edited by Master Po; 12-17-2017, 03:59 PM.

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